Jump to content

 
Photo

Old-style map

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1
Hans van der Maarel

Hans van der Maarel

    CartoTalk Editor-in-Chief

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Cartography, GIS, history, popular science, music.
  • Netherlands

I'm trying to come up with a map style in Illustrator that resembles the 19th century copper-engraved maps. This is what I have so far:

 

Attached File  Willemstad_top10_koper.jpg   144.03KB   257 downloads

 

Basically set up the styles in Illustrator (hatching for the buildings, vignette for the water), then rasterized it and put it at 90% opacity on top of a "weathered" background to simulate discolored paper.

 

Some questions that come to mind:

  • I've seen examples of those old maps which were colored (albeit very pale). Would it be common to have more than 1 tint of the same color (e.g. green) on those maps, assuming each extra color is a seperate print run.
  • What's the smallest line width that could be achieved with this production process?
  • Were text halos actually being used in that period?

Any other suggestions as to how I can improve upon this? Please keep in mind that the text placement is just "for reference" at the moment.


Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
Email: hans@redgeographics.com / Twitter: @redgeographics

#2
DaveB

DaveB

    Hall of Fame

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,057 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Redlands, CA
  • United States

It looks quite good.

 

This is mostly speculation on my part, but a lot of maps I've seen from that time were still being hand-colored. Linework could be very fine. I don't see any haloed text on any of the maps from that time in books I have. Mostly they seem to curve and angle text to avoid conflicts with other text. Most linework is fine enough and colors light enough there isn't much of a problem with text not being legible.

 

One thing that was common was to make the lines on 2 sides of the buildings or blocks thicker, sort of a shadow effect, typically the south and east, I believe. This is not a gray shadow effect, just a thicker solid black line.

I think color choices and fonts are some of the biggest factors in producing maps that mimic old styles. And some of the effects, like your building hatching and water lines.


Dave Barnes
Esri
Product Engineer
Map Geek

#3
Hans van der Maarel

Hans van der Maarel

    CartoTalk Editor-in-Chief

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Cartography, GIS, history, popular science, music.
  • Netherlands

Thanks Dave. I did notice that subtle shadow-like effect (and have used something to that effect on some of my other maps in the past), that's what I was going to attempt next.


Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
Email: hans@redgeographics.com / Twitter: @redgeographics

#4
Hans van der Maarel

Hans van der Maarel

    CartoTalk Editor-in-Chief

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Cartography, GIS, history, popular science, music.
  • Netherlands

So what about font usage? I've picked Times here, but that's not right (as one of my Facebook friends pointed out) as it's designed in the 1930s. How about Bodoni or Caslon?


Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
Email: hans@redgeographics.com / Twitter: @redgeographics

#5
Strebe

Strebe

    Key Contributor

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Map projections. Snobby chocolate. Science in general.
  • United States

I think you're actually looking at a steel plate engraving here, both stylistically and consistent with the period you state, although your map has characteristics of both. As for font, those you mention could work. You might consider Didot. It hails from the previous century but the basic design was used so extensively in mapping that it would not have been anachronistic even in your period.

--daan Strebe

#6
ProMapper

ProMapper

    Master Contributor

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 216 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:India
  • Interests:promapper@gmail.com
  • India

Well there is an aptly named font Papyrus for old style maps. See attached screen capture.

Attached Files



#7
Dennis McClendon

Dennis McClendon

    Hall of Fame

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago
  • Interests:map design, large-scale maps of cities
  • United States

No, not Papyrus, a cartoonish imitation of calligraphy.

 

I'm quite impressed with the look of the map itself, but the typography is a bit anachronistic.  Caslon, Garamond, Janson, or Scotch Roman would be safe choices.  But the mixed-case streetnames look wrong for the era (much as I defend them on modern maps).  You want a very early sans-serif grotesk in all caps, I think.

 

This may be too much trouble, but I don't think the maps of the time had such precise haloing.  Undoubtedly you have access to historic Dutch maps to emulate, but for USAns looking in, historicaerials.com is a good way to quickly look at a lot of old USGS topos, and old coastal charts can be found here.


Dennis McClendon, Chicago CartoGraphics
chicagocarto.com

#8
frax

frax

    Hall of Fame

  • Associate Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,320 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stockholm, Sweden
  • Interests:music, hiking, friends, nature, photography, traveling. and maps!
  • Sweden

Love the colours and the pattern on the building footprints, I think you are doing very well!


Hugo Ahlenius
Nordpil - custom maps and GIS
http://nordpil.com/
Twitter

#9
Hans van der Maarel

Hans van der Maarel

    CartoTalk Editor-in-Chief

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Cartography, GIS, history, popular science, music.
  • Netherlands

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I'll look at some different font options, and will probably add some random speckles and noise to it in the Photoshop phase.

 

 Undoubtedly you have access to historic Dutch maps to emulate

 

My dad has a atlas of reproduction topo maps from the late 19th century, I'll have to see if I can nick that. My personal collection (of Dutch topo maps) only goes back as far as the 30s, that's where I got the colors from.


Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
Email: hans@redgeographics.com / Twitter: @redgeographics

#10
DaveB

DaveB

    Hall of Fame

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,057 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Redlands, CA
  • United States

A great excuse reason to peruse old maps. :)

 

One thing I've noticed looking at maps of the period is the serif lettering usually seems to have quite thin serifs (slab serifs, if I'm not mistaken) and thin strokes of thin letters (as opposed to the thick strokes of the letters, for more contrast I presume). Letter shapes are also key to the character of a typeface or lettering. Fancy lettering (script or display lettering, etc.) is often used for title blocks/cartouches. And some san serif lettering in some cases for some features, as Dennis indicated. Sounds like some good ideas from Messrs. Strebe and McClendon for possible fonts.


Dave Barnes
Esri
Product Engineer
Map Geek

#11
shaimaa gamal

shaimaa gamal

    Newbie

  • New Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Egypt

thanks a lot



#12
Matthew Hampton

Matthew Hampton

    Hall of Fame

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon
  • Interests:Playing in the mountains and rivers.
  • United States

Looks great Hans!  My only suggestion would be to add Perpetua and Book Antiqua to the font options list.


co-cartographic creator of boringmaps.com


#13
rudy

rudy

    Ultimate Contributor

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Canada

(Like)



#14
Hans van der Maarel

Hans van der Maarel

    CartoTalk Editor-in-Chief

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Cartography, GIS, history, popular science, music.
  • Netherlands

Here's a quick cellphone picture from a Dutch topo map from that general era.

Attached File  2013-08-10 10.16.25.jpg   309.83KB   72 downloads

 

Topographic maps were made by and for the military back then, that's why fortifications were blanked out. For some reason High Command hadn't realised that if an enemy saw a white space on a map that looked quite a lot like a Coehoorn-style (not Vauban of course, on account of him being French...) fortification, they'd assume it to be... a fortification!

 

Dennis, any suggestions for an early grotesk? I tried Akzidenz Grotesk and it just looks anachronistically to me.

 

I checked out some of the other font suggestions, kinda torn between Janson and Didot...


Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
Email: hans@redgeographics.com / Twitter: @redgeographics

#15
Dennis McClendon

Dennis McClendon

    Hall of Fame

  • Validated Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago
  • Interests:map design, large-scale maps of cities
  • United States

Yeah, Akzidenz Grotesk is too close to Helvetica.  Of course, my perspective is American, but look at Monotype News or Sigma.  A search for "19th century sans-serif" or "19th century grotesk" will turn up some retro examples from various artisanal foundries.

 

One thing that's tricky is that the lettering on the old maps you're emulating was mostly hand-drawn.  So using a modern font makes it all too perfect.  I know some of the typophiles have made fonts that include the imperfections and variations of real hand lettering.  To me, Didot looks too modern, even though it's centuries old, because I associate that extreme-contrast look with 20th century Bodonis and fashion magazines.  Hand-drawn "Didot italic" would look right; computerized Didot italic will look wildly anachronistic, I think.

 

 In the US, where wax engraving was more popular, actual foundry type was much more common.  Here's a random sample from a 1903 atlas:

 

PudllBe.jpg

 

However, all my European maps from that era are hand-drawn serif type.  I suspect the serifs made the hand-drawing look more "finished" and made the spacing look better.  It's really hard to make a hand-drawn sans-serif look like type rather than chalkboard letters.


Dennis McClendon, Chicago CartoGraphics
chicagocarto.com




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

-->