14 replies to this topic

[François Goulet]

I haven't post anything here in ages.

I've been asked to draw 26 maps for an upcoming book on wine. I made one first for review (Italy) by the author and the publisher. They really like it. It's not 100% finish (I need to add cities at least), but I'd like to have your input.

The book is for a general audience, not wine expert so the regions are quite generalized. They may end up to be even more generalized since I used an unedited version of a reference map from the author.

No north arrow and scale are needed I think since we don't need to know that this region is 25 sq km, but mostly that Calabrese wines come from the South of Italy.

I used a font "pair" and color palette from Gretchen Peterson's Cartographer's Toolkit.

What do you think?

 Italie_demo.png   365.8K   199 downloads

[David Medeiros]

I think it looks great. My only real complaint would be that it's not immediately obvious that your bold black type goes with the colored wine regions. I might try a closer type to symbol association or color the type to match the symbol.

Also I like to add letter spacing to certain labels to increase the visual hierarchy a bit. Ocean label and national labels in particular usually get increased spacing.

You might try www.typebrewer.org for more examples on label styles. Or for a little more help than packaged lists of type combinations you could try Eduard Imhofs essay on map labeling: http://www.mapbliss....mes_on_Maps.pdf.

The symbol style look great, good colors I think. I might try to simplify the line work just to add rounded edges where there are sharp corners now (simplify in Illustrator at 99% maybe). And, I'm just noticing that there is a graticule. Its very hard to see. I'm not sure its needed but if you do keep it you might consider a darker shade of blue instead of grey. Or a white knock out graticule: http://www.mapbliss......lard iWeb.jpg

David

[Jacques Gélinas]

Nice,

A few things I would try out.
1. a slightly thinner line for the country boundaries.
2. maybe look into a different font (with a bit more flare) for the wine regions.
3. maybe add a tint-hue to each region label that would create a visual match with the region's color.

only suggestions,
because the map works as is.

Regards,

[razornole]

"The book is for a general audience, not wine expert so the regions are quite generalized."

They are not generalized, they are plain missing. I would try to figure out a way to delineate the regions. It just doesn't seem to make sense to place so much emphasis on the regions with the type and then not map them. I couldn't image a blank map of the US with state names randomly placed over it. I think David summed it up, he thought the labels for the Italian regions were associated with the wines.

kru

[François Goulet]

Thanks David and Jacques. I appreciate the feedback.

I'll keep all that in mind. I've sent the map to the publisher designers so I'll know more then. The only sure thing is that all the text need to be black with nothing else behind (shadow or halo). Normally, the publisher translate the book at least in English and Spanish so the color plates stays the same and it's only the overprint black for the text that need to be printed (lower costs).

The graticule is much more evident once printed (on an office laser printer). Dark blue is a good idea.

I'll try to take another go at my draft and repost it here.

Thanks!

[François Goulet]

"The book is for a general audience, not wine expert so the regions are quite generalized."

They are not generalized, they are plain missing. I would try to figure out a way to delineate the regions. It just doesn't seem to make sense to place so much emphasis on the regions with the type and then not map them. I couldn't image a blank map of the US with state names randomly placed over it. I think David summed it up, he thought the labels for the Italian regions were associated with the wines.

kru

That may be my English that needs some improvement. Having the map in your face for 3 hours can make you forget the big picture so that why I ask for feedback.

I'm not sure I understand though when you say that the wine regions are missing? Venetian wine are made in the orange areas next to Vénétie, which is the name of the wine region. There isn't any admin labels there except for the countries. I could have place the labels on top of the areas though. I thought about it but I wanted to use bold saturated colors so I thought the labels wouldn't show as well. I could try with a leader line?

[Bilal]

Nice,
1. a slightly thinner line for the country boundaries.

only suggestions,
because the map works as is.

Regards,

i agree with this suggestion, may be if it appear as a background will give the map more advantages to present the main topic clearer.

May be if you flip the gradient colors for wine area will give it more smoother shape

bye the way i like the color combination

thanks for sharing it with us !!

[razornole]

Then I miss read the map. I assumed the colors were for a varietal of grape or something like that (that would have been explained in the book). Your wine regions are the same as Italy's political regions. When I think of wine regions in Italy I think of Valpolicella, Chianti, Brunello, Orvieto, etc. I guess that I was taking it a step too far.

kru

[François Goulet]

Then I miss read the map. I assumed the colors were for a varietal of grape or something like that (that would have been explained in the book). Your wine regions are the same as Italy's political regions. When I think of wine regions in Italy I think of Valpolicella, Chianti, Brunello, Orvieto, etc. I guess that I was taking it a step too far.

kru

Valpolicella is from Venetia and Chianti from Tuscany - I think. I've been ask to map greater region, like Bordeaux or Languedoc in France, but you are right, I'll make sure the legend at the beginning of the book or the text make that very clear.

[Marco Gualdrini]

"The book is for a general audience, not wine expert so the regions are quite generalized."

They are not generalized, they are plain missing. I would try to figure out a way to delineate the regions. It just doesn't seem to make sense to place so much emphasis on the regions with the type and then not map them. I couldn't image a blank map of the US with state names randomly placed over it. I think David summed it up, he thought the labels for the Italian regions were associated with the wines.

kru

That may be my English that needs some improvement. Having the map in your face for 3 hours can make you forget the big picture so that why I ask for feedback.

I'm not sure I understand though when you say that the wine regions are missing? Venetian wine are made in the orange areas next to Vénétie, which is the name of the wine region. There isn't any admin labels there except for the countries. I could have place the labels on top of the areas though. I thought about it but I wanted to use bold saturated colors so I thought the labels wouldn't show as well. I could try with a leader line?

Hi, I'm Italian and I'm a wine lover

Your map is very beautiful, but from a geographic and cartographic point of view, and also from a wine production point of view is really very general and not precise. The labels close to the colored areas seem to match the names of our administrative regions (are your sure that french word for "Veneto" is "Venetie"?), but don't give a correct idea of the placement of the region and its bondary. While, if we consider the names as names of "wines areas", I don't understand well why you get separated "blobs" inside the regions. For istance, why three red blobs separated by a non-wine area in Emilia-Romagna? And why all these sparse blobs in Lombardia or Lazio? Or why the Friuli-Venezia-Giulia doesn't reach the border of the country? And why Veneto is splitted in two?
It's not very clear to understand. Consider also that Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna are in great part the same kind of cultivar (Sangiovese, that is a component of Chianti and of Brunello).

Anyway, from a graphical point of view is really a beautiful map.

My two cents
Marco Gualdrini
GEOgrafica - www.geografica.org
Italy

[Dennis McClendon]

The wine regions are symbolized like political subdivisions, with hard dark edges that fade toward the center. For natural and agricultural regions, I think it is better to symbolize them with a technique that indicates an indistinct boundary. Photoshop and modern Illustrator have a variety of techniques, and you've even used one (fading) for the sea and the surrounding nation boundaries. Another technique is a stippled effect like this:

[François Goulet]

Hi, I'm Italian and I'm a wine lover

Your map is very beautiful, but from a geographic and cartographic point of view, and also from a wine production point of view is really very general and not precise. The labels close to the colored areas seem to match the names of our administrative regions (are your sure that french word for "Veneto" is "Venetie"?), but don't give a correct idea of the placement of the region and its bondary. While, if we consider the names as names of "wines areas", I don't understand well why you get separated "blobs" inside the regions. For istance, why three red blobs separated by a non-wine area in Emilia-Romagna? And why all these sparse blobs in Lombardia or Lazio? Or why the Friuli-Venezia-Giulia doesn't reach the border of the country? And why Veneto is splitted in two?
It's not very clear to understand. Consider also that Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna are in great part the same kind of cultivar (Sangiovese, that is a component of Chianti and of Brunello).

Anyway, from a graphical point of view is really a beautiful map.

My two cents
Marco Gualdrini
GEOgrafica - www.geografica.org
Italy

Thanks Marco.

Firstly, this is the reference I've got for the job (it's the first of 26 maps for the book):

 carte_italie.gif   42.66K   57 downloads

What I understand from the author is that the blobs are where wine from the different regions are made. Since Italy is not covered by vineyards, it explains the gaps Of course, each blob represents a different appellation. The eastern blob of Veneto (yes, it's Vénétie in French), could have been labeled Piave but it's still a wine from Veneto.

I don't know how it's presented elsewhere, but here - in Quebec - where wine and liquors are sold by a state agency, wine is placed in the store by country... well, except for France because it's like 60% of the choice we have. All the Italian wine is the "Italy" rack...

If I take the example of French wine, we have a Bordeaux section, a Languedoc one, a Burgundy one, etc. It's classified by greater region. We don't have Chablis, Medoc or Saint-Chinian separately. Since the book is primarily targeted for local market, that may explain the choice (maybe... the manuscript is almost done and they just contacted me).

Having said that, I'll have a map of Burgundy and another of Languedoc with the different appellations of the different wines made there. I just don't have one to do for Italy.

 carte_bourgogne.jpg   74.24K   47 downloads

Chablis and Côte de Beaune are wine from Burgundy, so I don't think I couldn't draw a map of where wine from Burgundy are made...

I'll have to do 12 maps on French wine on 26...

As I remember my last trip to Total Wine in Florida (and the amount of drool it produce before all that choice! ), wine where presented by varieties. An alley of Cabernet and an other for Pinot noir, ... Drawing a map of where you can find Sangiovese is not impossible, but Cabernet and Pinot aren't grown only in one region.

I'd love to make a map like that one:
 4.jpg   272.9K   47 downloads

which I'm certain would satisfied you more, but...

Honestly, I understand your point 100% but I have very little to say in the choice of what to map... And since the public are people who know nothing or not much on wine, it could be too much to enter that level of detail (which would not be that detailed, I give you that). I know a lot of people who would just be surprised to see that there's wine made in South Africa or Austria...

[François Goulet]

The wine regions are symbolized like political subdivisions, with hard dark edges that fade toward the center. For natural and agricultural regions, I think it is better to symbolize them with a technique that indicates an indistinct boundary. Photoshop and modern Illustrator have a variety of techniques, and you've even used one (fading) for the sea and the surrounding nation boundaries. Another technique is a stippled effect like this:

I know, I know, ... If it settle that point, I've been asked to draw them without any contour. Just plain color. I think I'll add a shadow to softened the edges though.

I need to consider the references I'm given to do that job too. I can't do research on my own and the reference I have have very distinct boundaries for the regions.

Thanks Dennis!

[Marco Gualdrini]

Thanks Marco.

Firstly, this is the reference I've got for the job (it's the first of 26 maps for the book):

 carte_italie.gif   42.66K   57 downloads

I see. The reference map is really misleading, in my opinion, expecially for the reference lines (much better yours with no reference lines and only names and colors). Anyway, it's a very general map so I accept it

What I understand from the author is that the blobs are where wine from the different regions are made. Since Italy is not covered by vineyards, it explains the gaps

Yep, but I can swear on the fact that those gaps aren't real. Consider the Bologne area and the gap between the northern Emilia-Romagna area (Reno river). I live exactly there, in Faenza. I can swear on the fact that there is no gap at all and everywhere we produce different kinds of wine with no continuity solution. I understand it's a graphical way to dividide different tipologies of vine, anyway it's very rough. But this is a marketing problem, not a cartographic problem.

I'd love to make a map like that one:
 4.jpg   272.9K   47 downloads

which I'm certain would satisfied you more, but...

Yes, this map is much more clear and precise and makes more sense. It's your editor choice, obviously, not yours.
Thank you for the infos on the wine market in North America, is really interesting for me.

I know a lot of people who would just be surprised to see that there's wine made in South Africa or Austria...

I don't know much of the South Africa wines but Austria wines are one of the better wines in the world, and have an history of hundreds of years , like Italia, French and German wines

On my side, I did some years ago a very complex map of the different cultivars in Italy: it was a more technical map, very large (100x70 cm) and with a lot of overlapping textures. We got more than 150 different DOCG wines (Controlled and Guarantee Origin Denomination) across the 20 italian administrative regions. I did it in ArcView 3.2 starting from database data and local boundaries, it was a very complex result and the map, while being quite beautiful, wasn't clear at all!!!

[François Goulet]

I don't know much of the South Africa wines but Austria wines are one of the better wines in the world, and have an history of hundreds of years , like Italia, French and German wines

On my side, I did some years ago a very complex map of the different cultivars in Italy: it was a more technical map, very large (100x70 cm) and with a lot of overlapping textures. We got more than 150 different DOCG wines (Controlled and Guarantee Origin Denomination) across the 20 italian administrative regions. I did it in ArcView 3.2 starting from database data and local boundaries, it was a very complex result and the map, while being quite beautiful, wasn't clear at all!!!

If you want a good South African wine, try the Boschendal, a chardonnay. It's my favorite from that area.
I honestly don't remember seeing any Austrian wine at our SAQ (Quebec's Alcools Society). Must be in the "Other Countries" section. That's sad, but I just saw that I have a map of Austria to make!

Like I said to Dennis, I shouldn't do my own research. The reference maps are provided by the author. I used to work for that publisher - on the payroll, not as freelance - and I used to start with a table of content and a wish list for what to see on each map and I was doing my own research... good times!!

Thank you very much for your input.