9 replies to this topic

[cosmicomics]

First off, hello everyone.

I'm completely new to this site and was referred over after I posted my query on reddit. So, back in the early 80's when my dad was going to school in Madison, he once walked past a map that was an equal land-area projection and which was bordered with historical ethnocentric projections according to who was in power in a certain time period (also, it was sponsored by the OAS or the UN, this will be relevant later). At the time my dad was a flat-broke student studying abroad on his way to class, and he never saw the map again.

I've been hearing about this map for years and I always wanted to help my father find it. Recently I was absent-mindedly searching for such a map, and I discovered that the Peters projection was heavily endorsed by the UN and the OAS. I've since asked my dad and he is certain that it is indeed the projection he saw so long ago walking through Madison. I've since seen many different maps, mostly from odt.org, yet none of them were quite like the one he remembered.

So, my question to you is, have any of you ever seen, or heard, of a map with the Peters projection which is bordered by historical examples of ethnocentric projections?

Thanks to everyone in advance,
cosmicomics!

[frax]

Hi, please note that the UN has never endorsed the Gall-Peters projection, neither heavily nor lightly!

Unfortunately I don't have any help for you, in finding this map. Would the "ethnocentric" projections be historic maps, or refer to e.g. Mercator and others? I am a bit skeptical to such terms...

[rudy]

Of course, peters had his own bias . . . as we all do when it comes to making maps.

[cosmicomics]

Hey frax, thank you very much for your response. Insofar as the UN endorsement is concerned, I saw that in a pro-Peters website so I would certainly not put my faith behind that statement.

As for what I meant by ethnocentric I was referring to more historical maps, e.g. maps from Spain during colonialism, China prior to the closing off of the country, (not that these were the maps on there, just the type of maps). I myself have no background whatsoever in cartography, so I'm really sorry if I misuse or butcher a term in any way.

I've seen Peters maps which are bordered with different projections such as the Mercator and the Waterman, but my dad is convinced that the maps were of a historical nature, with whatever historical and nationalistic bias it was representing labeled.

Again, thank you for your help!

Hi, please note that the UN has never endorsed the Gall-Peters projection, neither heavily nor lightly!

Unfortunately I don't have any help for you, in finding this map. Would the "ethnocentric" projections be historic maps, or refer to e.g. Mercator and others? I am a bit skeptical to such terms...

[Strebe]

Hey frax, thank you very much for your response. Insofar as the UN endorsement is concerned, I saw that in a pro-Peters website so I would certainly not put my faith behind that statement.

UNESCO adopted the projection. UNICEF and related agencies distributed a huge number of maps on the projection. There is no mechanism in the UN whereby the UN as a body would endorse a map projection; those who say the UN adopted it either don’t know what they’re talking about or seek to deceive. The Gall–Peters projection has not been used widely within the UN outside of the aforementioned agencies.

Regards,
— daan Strebe

[frax]

Daan, are you sure abut UNESCO? I have tried to trace the UNICEF rumors, and from what I can find is that national UNICEF organizations (which are independent bodies) have produced Gall-Peters maps, like the dutch UNICEF association.

[Hans van der Maarel]

like the dutch UNICEF association.

I remember getting that map at a young age. Mid 80s I suppose, way before I got into cartography. Must have gotten it through school or something.

[Strebe]

Daan, are you sure abut UNESCO? I have tried to trace the UNICEF rumors, and from what I can find is that national UNICEF organizations (which are independent bodies) have produced Gall-Peters maps, like the dutch UNICEF association.

Monmonier writes, “According to The Economist, by 1989 UNICEF and kindred organizations [presumably the national bodies] had distributed over 60 million copies. Prominent adopters include the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) on the international scene…” [Rhumb Lines and Map Wars, p. 153.]

Snyder writes, “UNESCO (the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization), the National Council of Churches, and Lutheran and Methodist groups are among the organizations supporting Peters’s map.”

Both Snyder and Monmonier are quite careful about such things. If you are looking for a source for the “rumors”, they would be the ones. It’s hard to get information about pre-World Wide Web times on the Web, of course, so you’re not going to find much about 1980s UNESCO.

Regards,
— daan Strebe

[frax]

Ok, thanks!

[BAbramms@aol.com]

I am the current publisher of the Peters Map for North America.
When I took over from Friendship Press, the map had 7 comparison panels at the bottom -- all Mercators -- all showing various examples of Mercator distortions.
When I wanted to revise the panels, Arno Peters refused to let us do so.
After Arno's death, we had a free hand to do what we wished (and were given permission by the Peters Estate, Oxford Cartographers, and Franz Huber).
So I can tell you that the change came from ODTmaps.com in the last 10 years.
There may still be a number of earlier maps circulating.
The original edition had the panels in B&W.
Our revised comparison panels are in color.
Bob Abramms (BAbramms@aol.com)
ODTmaps
Amherst MA