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Stavanger map compilation just released…


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#16
Paul H

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Scanning the QR code brought up the Avenza app. From the app I was able to load the Stavanger City Guide. Everything looks good. Nice job!

#17
Jacques Gélinas

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Kevin-Paul.

Worked for me. (Ipod).

Subject for discussion.
Great map for the display kiosk. Well done.
It most likely serves the purpose intend for. Walkers that need a descriptive global view of Stavanger.

Nice 'looking' map in the PDFMaps Apps.
My comments.
It just does not do it for me on a small screen.
Am I the only one who thinks that pasting maps designed for relatively large sheets of paper onto small screen devices is bad design?
For example, how relevant is the legend when you can't visually (or digitally) link the elements on the screen. I also have a zoom scaling issue. When zoomed out at a certain level text becomes useless. In sum there is no zoom layering as in other apps (like Google maps, Garmin mapping units).
This is only my opinion and I really don't want to downplay the app nor the map.
I simply don't think that a map designed for one medium can be published on various other mediums at the touch of a button. Design issues have to be considered.
I am sure advancements will be made to help solved these issues (unless I am the only one who thinks there is a problem here).

I have, years ago, published maps to the PALM hand-held with mixed success. I have successfully published utility maps (for a utilities company) on specific Garmin mapping devices.
I think the design process must be done in sync with the intended output medium.

Regards,

Jacques Gélinas
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www.cartesgeo.ca


#18
kevinpaulscarrott

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Thanks Paul, I appreciate your time and effort.

...always good to get feedback that everything is in working order.

I just had a quick chuckle to myself as I was writing the above words to you,
hope the rest of you won't mind a little weekend humour, by mentioning the following:
'Overheard at a Scottish wedding in London'

Lady Sonja: "...excuse me young man, is there anything worn under the kilt?"

Scottish Bridegroom: "...no madam, everything is in perfect working order!"


Have a great weekend all & one.

Best wishes from Norway,
Kevin-Paul

#19
kevinpaulscarrott

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Hello Jacques and thank you very much for your time and energy on this.

Firstly, thanks for the positive feedback on the design and appearance of the Stavanger City map.

Secondly, yes, all valid points from someone who I can see has good experience and has quality of thought. Many designers forget how important this is. “Quality of thought”.

Thirdly, the way I look at this at present is as follows; the Avenza PDF Stavanger map is probably sufficient enough for finding a few of the sights in downtown Stavanger, it may even double as a quick gimmicky souvenir for travellers to take home and show family & friends where they’ve been, but at the same time it is available and it is free, so lets wait and see if we get any feedback from users in the field.

Also I have some quite humorous and interesting feedback for you, I’m sure that you’ll be interested having worked a number of years ago designing maps for the PALM hand-held. The Stavanger map that you referred to regarding the kiosk was originally designed for a prototype hand-held way back in 2004. I’ve included an image of the original graphics for you below. So it’s taken almost 13 years for this particular map to find it’s way via the display kiosk and onto a hand-held device. Patience is a virtue?

All the best to one & all.
Any other testers on any other Apple devices are very welcome…
…lets see there’s Jacques on an iPod and Paul on an i..don’t know, he didn’t say…
…well there’s iPhone and iPad, so any takers?

Kevin-Paul

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#20
Jacques Gélinas

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Kevin-Paul,

First thanks for taking my comments objectively regarding your map on the PDFMaps app. As I re-read them they seem a bit harsh.

As you mention more user feedback is required. (Sharing them would be appreciated)
The map being free is also a good point. I also lacked for testing purposes being in Stavenger... no GPS functions available.

As a small publisher using Avenza products I am interested in seing their app evolve.

Thanks for sharing your Palm handheld experience.
I am not sure how to word this, but in my mind paper is a constant publishing medium while with digital medium you must always adapt to the various devices and operating systems that come and go through time.

Cheers,

Jacques Gélinas
cartographer
www.cartesgeo.ca


#21
Paul H

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Oops, sorry, I was using an iPhone. (3GS)

Here's my take on the conversation. I understand what Jacques is saying, but I also like the fact that users can view the kiosk, hit the QR code, and then immediately download the map to their mobile device and be using the EXACT SAME IMAGE on their device that they see on the kiosk. I think there's value to this. Especially for folks who aren't mappy. They can see where they want to go on the kiosk map, and then the visual cues on the Avenza app are identical to what they just saw and comprehended from the kiosk.

#22
kevinpaulscarrott

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Excellent valid point! You're one of the few Paul, that comprehends the concept behind the Stavanger Guide Map. Most of our visitor have spent a lot of time, energy and money getting to our location…so while they’re standing there at the kiosk (WC) give them all the help one can....excuse the play-on-words :)

All the various formats, medium, access points and channels are the same map.
A standard uniform message for anyone finding themselves in the city of Stavanger Norway.

...no McDonalds & Burger King city maps here.....yet!

All the best as always,
Kevin-Paul

Any other testers on any other Apple devices are very welcome…
… Paul was on iPhone (3GS)
…Jacques was on an iPod
…iPad, any takers?

#23
Hans van der Maarel

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…iPad, any takers?


Yes, I just looked at it on my iPad. Looks great, only the insets won't be as useful what with the GPS functionality. I personally feel that you do need to do a bit of extra design work, e.g. getting rid of the insets, to properly prepare a map for PDF Maps.

Another thing we've done on the (300+) Dutch topo maps that we have for sale through the Avenza Map Store is omit the scale bar and north arrow:
- Most of the time they won't be visible alongside the map anyway, rendering them useless.
- The app has a distance measuring option, as well as an option to orient to the internal compass.
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Red Geographics
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#24
kevinpaulscarrott

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...sorry Hans only just arrived back in town.

Yes you are right. Lots of room for improvements.

Hopefully get the ball rolling again soon…bit of a backlog at present…one-man-band!

Keep-up the good work and thanks for keeping an eye on things.

Best wishes to all,
Kevin-Paul

…Paul was on iPhone (3GS)
…Jacques was on iPod
…Hans was on iPad
Great team!
Thanks!

#25
Ted Florence

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So for all of you who have been following this thread and also those who may be looking for ideas regarding map distribution, here is an update on what has been happening in Stavanger with Kevin's map.

So not only is the beautiful Stavanger map now available in the Avenza PDF Maps digital map store as a free download, but a QR code has been created, as shown in a earlier post and that QR code has now been incorporated into the actual design of the maps that have been placed around the city.

Have a look at the photo Kevin sent me yesterday and specifically the lower right corner where the blurb about PDF Maps and the QR-code are presented.

So now folks looking at the sign can easily and immediately get access to the PDF Maps app and ultimately the same Stavanger map they are standing in front of. How cool is that?

Every map-maker out there should be thinking about how they can use this technology in their own businesses. Imagine arriving at a trail head or getting off the plane in a new city and being able to quickly scan a code and get a map for that hike or city centre. Imagine seeing a great map in a travel magazine, newspaper or brochure and being able to quickly scan a code in the article and getting that same map on your device. The possibilities are endless.

Thanks for "listening" and thanks to Kevin and the good people of Stavanger for helping bring this to a real life situation.

Ted

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Attached Files


Ted Florence

Avenza Systems Inc.

When Map Quality Matters ®

www.avenza.com

 

Cartographic and spatial imaging solutions for Adobe Creative Suite

Mobile mapping solutions for using, selling and distributing maps to mobile devices

 

 

 

mp_logo.gif    gi_logo.gifpdf-maps-icon.png
 


#26
kevinpaulscarrott

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So now folks looking at the sign can easily and immediately get access to the PDF Maps app and ultimately the same Stavanger map they are standing in front of. How cool is that?

Every map-maker out there should be thinking about how they can use this technology in their own businesses.

Hi, and good to pop-up for a breath of fresh air after a few weeks of toil & strife, thanks also to Ted for his above feedback and endorsement.

…for those of you still interested in the latest developments in Stavanger Norway, here’s our latest free-standing unit, maps & destination gateway to the region.

As usual I’m using the old ‘a picture tells a 1000 words’ routine.

I’m hoping that this follow-up post may help to encourage, inspire and motivate a few other cartographers around the world.
It’s 2012, we live in a digital world, but there’s still plenty of scope for high quality design cartography out on the streets and byways of our towns and cities.

Combining the ancient art of creative cartography along with latest App software for hand-held devices and Quick Read code downloading has been a tremendous personal lift for me. I foresee many many opportunities coming our way if we are willing to challenge, change and adapt.

No cartography is worth much, which doesn’t aim to change the world. Of course no cartographer can be judged by her/his success or failure to change the world, since none of us ever succeed. We can only hope to change or to influence like mined spirits or hearts by sharing our experiences.

Good design will always win, and a radical soul will always be more creative than a conformist one.

I’d love to hear from anyone thinking along similar lines.
Are you one of the many independent cartographers determined and dedicated to designing and producing quality map work? Never give-up, there are many of us out here and we will continue to support you in your endeavors by posting interesting topics and sound advice here on Cartotalk. Remember, you are not alone…

As always, all the best,
Kevin-Paul
Stavanger Guide Maps Norway

PS. Please also let me mention briefly that once your work is out in the open, there’s always a chance of follow-up projects, as in this case where the Port Authority observed the results on the city streets and decided in favour of placing three identical maps on the port quaysides (see diagram) for incoming cruise traffic which this year should reach around 500 000 passengers, and most of them will need to know in which direction to head…and for those passengers that have an iOS device with them, they can scan the QR code on the Quayside and take the same map from the ship's gangway, into the city centre and back safely onboard...I'll end with Ted's own words: "how cool is that?"

Free standing unit at Østervåg, Stavanger Norway

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First lone traveller looking for directions to his hotel

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Port of Stavanger follow-up project (with QR code on the Quayside)

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Artwork available for review, here

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#27
kevinpaulscarrott

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Hi,

...for those of you still interested in this thread, here’s the latest developments in Stavanger. Our first ‘rural’ emplacement a few kilometres outside the city centre.
An extremely quiet and peaceful rural area under normal circumstances…except for every second year when Houston, Texas and Stavanger rotate their People in Power exhibitions. In-other-words the black gold specialist of the Oil & Gas energy sector.

Hopefully The Stavanger Map Guide may assist a few of the expected 50 000 from over 100 countries this year in August.
Most of them will be quite ‘techie’ with little gadgets and sundry, so it should enable some stats on the PDFMaps APP and Stavanger map downloads.

...also just a nippy update on the Cruise-Ship map signage…the maps are going up next week on 3 of the quays around Stavanger Harbour…I’ll post some photographs for those of you interested in; chosen solutions, designs, visual presentation and materials etc. for this particular project.

As always, all the best to one and all,
Kevin-Paul

In the meantime a few ‘rural’ photographs…in harmony with nature:

- In harmony with nature

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- Angle view, freestanding unit

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- First biker traveller to pass-by

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#28
Jacques Gélinas

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Don't have a Iphone, Ipad or Ipod.
Maybe an old fashion map dispenser. Low tech but for everyone. Maybe some accept credit card payments :)

http://www.cityscape.../map-dispensers

anyway I think they are pretty cool.

Regards,

Jacques Gélinas
cartographer
www.cartesgeo.ca


#29
kevinpaulscarrott

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Don't have a Iphone, Ipad or Ipod.

Hello Jacques and thank you for your refreshing feedback,

…you’ll be pleased to hear that I support your feelings…I myself have no iPad, iPod, iPhone or iAnything-else.

I totally agree with your words “Low tech but for everyone”. I feel that I’m a radical spirit designer and I try my best to include as many as possible when attempting most things in life.

Yes, the map-dispensers are fine, although they must be properly maintained, inspected and cleaned on a regular basis. The most important thing is that they are respected by citizens, general public and visitors.
It’s a great responsibility having ‘anything’ on public display!

When you have some time please check-out my “Paper is still king!” post here

I’m sure that you’ll appreciate the photograph below. Over 1.5 million Stavanger maps get dished-out FREE - GRATIS - GRATUIT every year along with the other commercial map projects. The Stavanger City Map is available just about every place in town, day & night.

High tech, regarding progression or digression (or however one wishes to phrase it), here’s a positive note about “change” - smart people enjoy change and find ways of adapting to make it work well for them!

And for those of you on Cartotalk who know me, now is probably a convenient time as any to mention that I’ve good news and bad news depending on friend or foe.

Bad news:
This will probably be my last post for some time to come as I’m going back on the road in July of this year. As well as a cartographer, I’m a geographer, the exploring kind (physical and human) that is. To all who have commented on kevinpaulscarrott posts, I say a warm thank you…

Good news:
This will probably be my last post for some time to come as I’m going back on the road in July of this year. As well as a cartographer, I’m a geographer, the exploring kind (physical and human) that is. To all who have commented on kevinpaulscarrott posts, I say a warm thank you and you’ll probably sleep much better now…

Any last minute comments from anyone, before departure, are made (as always) thoroughly welcome, especially of the humorous kind!

Hasta la vista…

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#30
Hans van der Maarel

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Good news:
This will probably be my last post for some time to come as I’m going back on the road in July of this year. As well as a cartographer, I’m a geographer, the exploring kind (physical and human) that is. To all who have commented on kevinpaulscarrott posts, I say a warm thank you and you’ll probably sleep much better now…


Phew!

Just kidding. I'm a great admirer of your work and it's been very interesting to follow this process. Have a good trip and we hope to see you here again soon.
Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
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