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NACIS in Canada?

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#1
SouthernCross

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Just curious, but if the first portion of NACIS stands for 'North American', why are no events ever held in Canada? Its a little frustrating for us Can"eh"dians.

We are quite nice and I'm sure our southern neighbours will find our ice hotels and igloos quite warm!
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#2
rudy

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Just curious, but if the first portion of NACIS stands for 'North American', why are no events ever held in Canada? Its a little frustrating for us Can"eh"dians.

We are quite nice and I'm sure our southern neighbours will find our ice hotels and igloos quite warm!

At some point in history there was a discussion between the Canadian Cartographic Association and NACIS to work more closely together but for reasons unknown to me, that fell through.

#3
James Hines

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It might have something to do with the CCA (Canadian Cartographic Association). But I agree with the sentiment that if the NACIS is going to use North American then sites that are not located in the United States should also be considered especially where a passport is required.

"There is much beauty that we fail to see through our own eyes teeming with life forms that give us that perception of our reality.  Leaves on the trees blowing gently in the wind, or scarily, the waves pounding through high surf, or lightly on a warm summer’s day; that opportunity to sit or swim in the water on a white beach.   That comfort to shout, “The universal conscious do you hear me?  I am alive, guide me dear logos towards the path of rightnesses.”  Earned what has been kept, no longer to be absorbed into a life filled with cold damn winds and  that stubborn fog clouding  my vision with nothing but darkness."


#4
CHART

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anywhere in North America could be interesting.

North American countries

Maybe Americans' perception of what North America is, is different?
Chart

#5
David Medeiros

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I think you have to look at from the NACIS perspective, their goal in holding an annual meeting is at least in part to have high levels of member attendance and participation. A lot of really interesting non US, North American locations would probably result in far fewer attendees than usual. I don't know the membership stats but I'd guess US citizens make up the majority of members.

Additionally, NACIS is an American organization, headquartered in Wisconsin. Although they do have a wide reaching scope and I assume some amount of international members.

Also I think there's bit of a fallacy in assuming that because a group uses the designation "North American" in their name that they are then compelled to represent or patronize any and all nations that exist in North America.

All that said if they ever do Vancouver BC I'm there!

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#6
Hans van der Maarel

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Hawaii! Or Aruba!!!

Just kidding, I don't care, as long as there's an airport nearby I'll get there somehow. But yeah, something like Montreal could be an interesting place.
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#7
SouthernCross

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Also I think there's bit of a fallacy in assuming that because a group uses the designation "North American" in their name that they are then compelled to represent or patronize any and all nations that exist in North America.

All that said if they ever do Vancouver BC I'm there!


So what do they represent then? I don't really think its a fallacy at all. Its kind of like an International Cartographic Association having meetings only in England!

I'm not trying to be difficult, just more curious than anything else at how many other people (namely, non-Americans) feel the same way about having a session in maybe Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal?

As for visiting our neighbours to the south, I'm all for that! There are lots of beautiful places in the United States. :)
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#8
rudy

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It might have something to do with the CCA (Canadian Cartographic Association). But I agree with the sentiment that if the NACIS is going to use North American then sites that are not located in the United States should also be considered especially where a passport is required.


Well, I perhaps know a bit more than I was letting on. Years back there was some discussion between the CCA and NACIS about coordinating annual conferences. I don't know the details on that but I do know that CCA recently tried resurrecting the idea and were immediately rebuffed. Now, I am not meaning to throw mud around as I don't know the entire story but I do know that it might do with perceived differences in approach. CCA has a very academic focus, primarily because most of its members seem to be academics and the practical side of cartography seems to get lost. I am not familiar with NACIS but it seems to be focused much more on the practical side of things. Whatever the differences or reasons for them not speaking to each other, I do think it could benefit both from at least trying to explore commonalities and possible benefits of working together.

As to the North American component . . . having a conference outside of the US would probably require many conferees to A ) get a passport and B ) get higher up approval for international travel - either of which is likely to deter people from attending, even if the conference was just across the border. But yes, making it truly North American could benefit all.

#9
Charles Syrett

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For me, the difficulty in getting to meetings has less to do with location, and more to do with timing. The meetings are usually too close to Canadian Thanksgiving, which always punches a big hole in my schedule because it's a big family "do". How about rescheduling the meetings for, say, the last week in November? :)

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#10
Ted Florence

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I agree that a Canadian conference would be good. After all I do live in Canada.
I have suggested Toronto and am going to look into that for 2013.
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#11
David Medeiros

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Also I think there's bit of a fallacy in assuming that because a group uses the designation "North American" in their name that they are then compelled to represent or patronize any and all nations that exist in North America.

All that said if they ever do Vancouver BC I'm there!


So what do they represent then? I don't really think its a fallacy at all. Its kind of like an International Cartographic Association having meetings only in England!

I'm not trying to be difficult, just more curious than anything else at how many other people (namely, non-Americans) feel the same way about having a session in maybe Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal?

As for visiting our neighbours to the south, I'm all for that! There are lots of beautiful places in the United States. :)


My perception of NACIS is that they are no more an international org than CCA is. Using "North American" in their name doesn't make them international. Maybe I'm wrong but I read it more as a designation of the level of regional inclusion they strive for. Of course that shouldn't prevent them from going outside the US to nearby locations to hold meetings, I think that probably has more to do with logistical practicalities.

I think my issue with this is the subtle implication that this is just another US centric transgression where Americans don't realize that North America is more than just the US. I think thats a simple and incorrect reading of the NACIS situation.

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#12
Charles Syrett

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CCA has "Canadian" in its name. NACIS has "North American". Since both were presumably started by cartographers, who (one would expect) would have an understanding of what those places actually are.....well, you get my drift.

Fact is, though, both include members from Europe and other places, and are clearly international. Despite my issue about the difference between Thanksgiving dates, there does have to be some measure of practicality in setting locations for meetings. Kudos to Ted if he can pull it off for Toronto in 2013!

Charles Syrett
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My perception of NACIS is that they are no more an international org than CCA is. Using "North American" in their name doesn't make them international. Maybe I'm wrong but I read it more as a designation of the level of regional inclusion they strive for. Of course that shouldn't prevent them from going outside the US to nearby locations to hold meetings, I think that probably has more to do with logistical practicalities.

I think my issue with this is the subtle implication that this is just another US centric transgression where Americans don't realize that North America is more than just the US. I think thats a simple and incorrect reading of the NACIS situation.



#13
David Medeiros

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CCA has "Canadian" in its name. NACIS has "North American". Since both were presumably started by cartographers, who (one would expect) would have an understanding of what those places actually are.....well, you get my drift.

Fact is, though, both include members from Europe and other places, and are clearly international.


I guess that's my point, both have an international membership but one has a national name and the other a regional name. What they choose to call themselves neither limits, nor compels their scope. I'm now curious to see how exactly NACIS views their charter though.

Something I've always wondered is what is the exact history of the NACIS meetings, where have they already been?

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#14
mlbostwick

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Taken from the NACIS 25 (Salt Lake City) program:

0 Oct. 2–4, 1980 Milwaukee, WI
1 Sept. 30–Oct. 3, 1981 Gatlinburg, TN
2 Oct. 21–24, 1982 Arlington, VA
3 Oct. 20–22, 1983 Milwaukee, WI
4 Oct. 17–20, 1984 Pittsburgh, PA
5 Nov. 10–13, 1985 Chicago/Skokie, IL
6 Oct. 15–18, 1986 Philadelphia, PA
7 Oct. 28–31, 1987 Atlanta, GA
8 Oct. 12–15, 1988 Denver, CO
9 Oct. 11–15, 1989 Ann Arbor, MI
10 Oct. 24–27, 1990 Orlando, FL
11 Oct. 19–23, 1991 Milwaukee, WI
12 Oct. 14–17, 1992 St. Paul, MN
13 Oct. 20–23, 1993 Silver Spring, MD
14 Aug. 10–13, 1994 Ottawa, ON
15 Oct. 25–28, 1995 Wilmington, NC
16 Oct. 2–5, 1996 San Antonio, TX
17 Oct. 1–4, 1997 Lexington, KY
18 Oct. 7–10, 1998 Milwaukee, WI
19 Oct. 20–23, 1999 Williamsburg, VA
20 Oct. 11–14, 2000 Knoxville, TN
21 Oct. 3–6, 2001 Portland, OR
22 Oct. 9–12, 2002 Columbus, OH
23 Oct. 8–11, 2003 Jacksonville, FL
24 Oct. 6–9, 2004 Portland, ME
25 Oct. 12–15, 2005 Salt Lake City, UT

and since then,
2006 - Madison, WI
2007 - St. Louis, MO
2008 -Missoula, MT
2009 - Sacramento, CA
2010 - St. Petersburg, FL
2011 - Madison, WI
2012 - Portland, OR

#15
rudy

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Wonder how the Ottawa one went in 1994




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