22 replies to this topic

[Hans van der Maarel]

Hypothetical example:

Eerily correct though... Except for some reason I did decide to hire you for a project

Just kidding. I think you're making a very good point though. Yes, many members here are freelancers or represent small businesses and a large majority are very much interested in building up this cartographic community and, to borrow from CHART, give to the community (and in turn receive)

[Derek Tonn]

Hypothetical example:

Eerily correct though... Except for some reason I did decide to hire you for a project

Just kidding. I think you're making a very good point though. Yes, many members here are freelancers or represent small businesses and a large majority are very much interested in building up this cartographic community and, to borrow from CHART, give to the community (and in turn receive)

Ha!

[sarcasm] Yeah...just be glad I didn't make you sing that "I'm proud to be an American" song at the top of your lungs in a ten gallon hat and cowboy boots in the process...or ask why you left your wooden shoes at home, or how the HECK people dare call soccer "futbol" (football, to us Ugly Americans) once they've touched down on "our" soil. [/sarcasm]

It's true though, isn't it?! We're all "selling" all the time...even when it's just going out to dinner at a conference and not mentioning the word "map" or "cartography" even once during a 2-3 hour conversation. If I like "Hans," I'm going to look for ways to do "Hans" favors and/or send a little work his way. I can see what he does from his sharing work in the CartoTalk gallery or clicking on the link to his company's website from his signature. He doesn't need to beat me over the head with what he does! Just be a nice, cool guy who knows his stuff and walks his talk (as he is), and good things will come his way.

[David Medeiros]

Derek, the situations you describe are more what I would call "networking" than marketing, that may be a thin line at times but to me the difference is important when talking about a community of peers. I look at CT as a community of fellow professionals first and a business opportunity second (or third... if at all!). I come here to learn, receive guidance, have work critiqued, occasionally give back what I can when I feel comfortable that I have something to offer. That's what I've always liked about this space, it's sort of a cartographer guild in a sense.

[Jean-Louis]

Yea I think Cartotalk is a great place too.
I noticed that when I first posted here, I opened with the line Lonely pictorial Map maker. Which bugs me now because when I get Googled that is the most noticable thing that comes up and I am embarassed by it.(any way to delete that Hans?)
Anyways, the point is that prior to Cartotalk I did not know one single other map maker, Now I know plenty and some have become good friends.

[frax]

Just a note - since we are branching out in these discussions - I believe the original discussion was more about marketers pushing their products by posting long semi-off-topic posts in existing discussions.

[Derek Tonn]

Does any one else feel like the forum has had an uptick in "posters" who are really just promoting their business or products lately?

It's not quite spam, but it's overt marketing none the less and what I don't like about it is that it seems to be done under the guise of the seller being a fellow carto talk member.

Any one else? Or am I just being too sensitive?

As a follow-up to Hugo's last post.

My $0.02 is that it's all a bit of either overt or covert marketing. Forums and groups such as NACIS are much more than that, of course! They are also professional development and/or a bit of a chance to connect a lot of us who previously felt alone...like we functioned and lived/worked on an island! It is still also "marketing" though...whether we call it that or even realize it. We're all ultimately looking for knowledge, friends and business/employment opportunities...one way or another.

[David Medeiros]

Does any one else feel like the forum has had an uptick in "posters" who are really just promoting their business or products lately?

It's not quite spam, but it's overt marketing none the less and what I don't like about it is that it seems to be done under the guise of the seller being a fellow carto talk member.

Any one else? Or am I just being too sensitive?

As a follow-up to Hugo's last post.

My $0.02 is that it's all a bit of either overt or covert marketing. Forums and groups such as NACIS are much more than that, of course! They are also professional development and/or a bit of a chance to connect a lot of us who previously felt alone...like we functioned and lived/worked on an island! It is still also "marketing" though...whether we call it that or even realize it. We're all ultimately looking for knowledge, friends and business/employment opportunities...one way or another.

I disagree... I'm here all the time and (to the best of my recollection) have never made a pass at anyone here in an attempt to directly promote myself or what I do. Now, I understand that just being present here, talking about what I do or having a link to my site in my sig line is a form of passive self promotion. And I do in fact look at CT as a very good place to network not just for business opportunities but professional growth. But I don't feel that just because I am a freelance cartographer that my participation here can be defined as overt or covert marketing. And my impression of most of the professionals around here (you included) is the same... It may be a semantic argument but the subtle difference between passive promotion and active promotion on a site like this is important... to me anyway.

Not that I don't understand what your getting at, I would just add "passive" to your list of promotional tactics before saying it applied to most of the members.

[Derek Tonn]

Yes, I suppose "covert" is a bit of a charged term...and that "active vs. passive" is better. You understand my point though. Everything we do, from having a booth at a tradeshow, to handing out a business card at dinner, to giving a talk or writing a paper/article, is a SALES (marketing) opportunity. People might not be writing that article so that members of the journal's readership will hire them. However, how many times might they use that article as part of their credentials or qualifications when interviewing for a job, asking for a pay raise, or bidding on a freelance project?

I'm not sure why "sales" and "marketing" are such dirty words though. It was the same thing I had to deal with when taking all of my undergraduate graphic design courses. As though you are 3/5ths of an artist/cartographer if you actually worry about how you are going to eat tonight! It's pretty hard to make a good map when you're starving to death...correct?!

To your original point of the thread though. Yes, the spike in "active" marketing within these threads annoys me too. If said people aren't sensitive or clever enough to engage in a little bit more "covert" or "passive" marketing techniques, how successful do you think they will be at the end of the day? It'll actually be worse for them, as you/we having a negative opinion of how they handle themselves will be worse for them than if you/we never knew they existed.