22 replies to this topic

[David Medeiros]

Does any one else feel like the forum has had an uptick in "posters" who are really just promoting their business or products lately?

It's not quite spam, but it's overt marketing none the less and what I don't like about it is that it seems to be done under the guise of the seller being a fellow carto talk member.

Any one else? Or am I just being too sensitive?

[CHART]

Good point!

I think that any form of self-advertisement should be prepared professionally and be posted only in the news and press release section.

[rudy]

Does any one else feel like the forum has had an uptick in "posters" who are really just promoting their business or products lately?

It's not quite spam, but it's overt marketing none the less and what I don't like about it is that it seems to be done under the guise of the seller being a fellow carto talk member.

Any one else? Or am I just being too sensitive?

Yes. But then they're just as likely to be receive critical responses as well that might not always reflect favourably on what thye post. The price you pay, I suppose, for having a popular forum.

[ELeFevre]

Does any one else feel like the forum has had an uptick in "posters" who are really just promoting their business or products lately?

It's not quite spam, but it's overt marketing none the less and what I don't like about it is that it seems to be done under the guise of the seller being a fellow carto talk member.

Any one else? Or am I just being too sensitive?

You're definitley not the only one who has noticed the uptick in marketing related posts. I don't think you're being too sensitive at all.

[BioGeoMan]

You guys should see my inbox as of late...oye!!!

[razornole]

I haven't noticed it as much, although, I generally pick which thread I open based on topic, topic poster or someone that has posted. I've been around long enough to be able to do so.

kru

[Hans van der Maarel]

Just so you all know, we as admins have noticed this as well and are doing our best to ensure that actual advertisements are limited to the news and press releases sections, as well as business opportunities.

[frax]

I think this is also a compliment to the status of CartoTalk in the community - this is the place to be and be seen!

Also regarding these posts - you marketers - make you sure your affiliation is clear!

[Jimbo]

I like to see more job opportunities whether freelance jobs or full time positions. I also like to see more essays & maps to pick a part.

[David Medeiros]

Just so you all know, we as admins have noticed this as well and are doing our best to ensure that actual advertisements are limited to the news and press releases sections, as well as business opportunities.

Thanks Hans. I hope you guys didn't take my post as an indictment of the moderation around here, you guys do good work. You usually move posts pretty quickly when they seem to be in the wrong place, or remove duplicates.

What I'm talking about is less obvious. I don't want to call anybody out on this but there are a few posters I've noticed who's only contribution to other peoples posts is to suggest they take a look at their services or their software. Or they start their own thread with a title that looks like they are asking for help but the body of the message is basically an ad. This is in stark contrast to how the more above board business contributors post (like Avenza or Ortelius) who seem to be adept at posting both business material and general carto help without mixing the two.

Not sure if there's a solution other than awareness, and avoidance but I would at least hope a post like this will serve as some notice that their tactics are not at all stealthy. I don't think you can force anybody to follow these rules but I'd really like to see much less self promotion outside of the appropriate forums.

[frax]

David,
Thanks for your input. I am also sure that plenty of you agree with me - I get very suspicious to the products and marketers when I see posts like this, I think this creates badwill.

[DaveB]

Maybe they should buy banner ads?

[Derek Tonn]

I guess I'm just trying to understand the logic of it. Most people participating on this site are either one-person shops, freelancers themselves, or running tiny companies. So then people come on here and say "Hire me! Hire me!!!"

Like I joke with a lot of the designers in our shop, there are two generic approaches to marketing that most people employ:

1. Carpet-bombing. Throw as many lines in the water as you possibly can, then wait for 1-2 nibbles. i.e. all that spamming and blasting that we all "love" so much. AKA collateral damage.
2. Laser-guided surgical strikes. Get to know one potential client/partner/niche/segment well, then spend most of your time and resources there.

I think it's safe to say that there has been an up-tick in "carpet-bombing" in CartoTalk this Summer. People trolling for scraps of work from others of us who are also in the business and looking for more work, with the main sales pitch being "I'm cheap!" (playing upon greed in developed nations, a la hoping we'll hire someone at $10/hr and then turn around and charge our clients $50/hr).

It just seems amateur and misguided. We're ALL effectively promoting and indirectly marketing our own (or our company's) services by participating in a forum such as this! With that in mind, I just wish some people were a little more clever or subtle about it...instead of resorting to "blasts" that basically amount to "Hire me!"

[CHART]

We're ALL effectively promoting and indirectly marketing our own (or our company's) services by participating in a forum such as this!

Dereck, not sure that the word ALL is 100% true. Some have chosen to be anonymous for whatever reasons.

I believe that forums such as this one are successful base on the notion of give and take. Give information (opinion, news ,tips ect) and in return you get a source of information you can take (learn) from. Obviously I think that those that just do "carpet bombing marketing" you so very well describe are 100% takers. Obviously this is not the case of many who like yourself give a lot to this forum and in return have the opportunity to gain respect from a specify community.

[Derek Tonn]

Thanks Chart!

I guess I was thinking more in the abstract. Along the lines of every waking moment of every day is a "sales opportunity." And with sales, it's not just about the products or services we sell...it is the idea that people are buying a relationship with us personally, as much as they are buying whatever we have to sell, at whatever price.

Hypothetical example: Hans and I meet for the very first time at a NACIS conference. We exchange pleasantries, then we decide to go grab some dinner. I spend most of the walk to the restaurant talking about me, myself and I...playing the role of the typical "ugly American." I then go on a little mini-rant in the restaurant about politics...dipping my toes into the waters of discussing the EU, trade policy and exchange rates.

By the end of the meal, Hans is:

A. Bored to tears with my wind-baggery.
B. A little annoyed, because I'm taking verbal shots at the EU while wrapping myself up in the American flag. USA-#1!

We get back to the hotel and Hans makes his hasty-yet-polite exit back to his room or the hospitality suite. Now, how likely do you think it will be in the months and years to come that Hans would ever refer one dime of design work to our shop? I'm guessing the chances would be somewhere between slim and none.

Every conscious moment of our lives is a sales opportunity. Not us selling mapping services or other products/services, but us selling ourselves as someone that would be fun, interesting, honest and ethical to work with. I screw up (we all do) from time to time, because I get annoyed or past my level of tolerance related to any number of things. However, I try my very-best to hold my tongue and not tell Purchasing Directors what I really think about their 30+ page "TPS reports" that masquerade as requests for proposals. 4-5 times per year though, I just can't hold my tongue...only to regret it later.