19 replies to this topic

[gregory]

Hello there,

I’m concerning buying Mapublisher.
Quick overview with tutororials from Avenza site doesn’t give me clear answers for couple real scenarios I will have to deal with:

1) I have a bunch of b&w maps whose will have to be restylized to colourfull ones.
The names of layers are all the same in all b&w maps – is there any chance to create some kind of template map with Mapublisher which should keep the style for each layer and while opening my b&w map assign each style to coresponding layer automatically ?
The same situation happens to symbols at those maps. All b&w symbols have colourful equivalents. Is there any chance to create some kind of symbols library from which Mapublisher could take colourful symbol and change it’s b&w equivalents ?

2) What about Mapublisher Label Pro – does any can confirm it’s usefulnnes comparing to Maplex for example ?

Thank in advance for any help and answers,

Gregory

[Jimbo]

If you create a Graphic Styles library, & a symbol styles library MAPublisher reads it through the Map Style sheets. You will have to create some expressions in order to get the features you want to display the correct feature from that library you want:

for example lets say I've created in my graphic styles a feature called "motorway." Now in the graphic style library I had to use the appearance tool to create two strokes, one yellow with a width of 3pt & one red at 9pt. In the map style sheets select in the top right a panel that contains three lines in it, once a menu pops up I had to create a new stylesheet, & in this case the features going into the stylesheet are line attributes. The motorway layer whether it's by itself or not has to dragged into the line stylesheet that I had created.

Next I had to select the Line Stylesheet by double clicking it. You will get a dialog box showing you a list of of rules, pretending there is none you select at the bottom "Add". Then in that first line select under the expression column, & pretending I'm using the simple expression tab there will be a new dialog box popping up. In the form first column is a list the named fields, in this case select "Feature" Second field contains mathematical expressions such as equal/ greater then, etc. In this case select "=" 7 in the third column contains all the attributes so in this case select "motoway." Once you say ok the line features that: feature = motorway will be assigned to the chosen line from the graphic styles library.


As for the LabelPro it's a very useful tool if you can set the rules correctly, & if it's not too large of of a project. After testing it on a text placement project we including Mr. Syrett had found was that manual text placement was actually a little faster then Label Pro with the scale because how the text was processed: 1) Label Pro creates too many groupings, & 2) the text was often centred, 3) because the text was often grouped we had to make a lot of edits especially where often it was broken. Therefore we had to edit the text for the purpose of indexing, & realignment.

That doesn't mean you should not buy LabelPro, it's an excellent tool for many types of projects, but it depends on the size of the project, the type of the project, & how well you know how to use the tool. For example LabelPro has proven to be useful when it comes to making "Park Maps".

[Hans van der Maarel]

1) I have a bunch of b&w maps whose will have to be restylized to colourfull ones.
The names of layers are all the same in all b&w maps – is there any chance to create some kind of template map with Mapublisher which should keep the style for each layer and while opening my b&w map assign each style to coresponding layer automatically ?
The same situation happens to symbols at those maps. All b&w symbols have colourful equivalents. Is there any chance to create some kind of symbols library from which Mapublisher could take colourful symbol and change it’s b&w equivalents ?

Definately yes for layers. Maybe for symbols, I'd have to try that before I can give you a definitive answer.

Do keep in mind that if you go for the layers approach, everything on a single layer will be styled exactly the same: same fill, same stroke.

[gregory]

Thank you both for swift and full answers.
Next week I'm going to give it a try. I hope both the trial combo: CS5 and Mapublisher will work fine and give me an answer especially about the symbol's case.


Regards,
Gregory

[Andrew Patterson]

As for the LabelPro it's a very useful tool if you can set the rules correctly, & if it's not too large of of a project. After testing it on a text placement project we including Mr. Syrett had found was that manual text placement was actually a little faster then Label Pro with the scale because how the text was processed: 1) Label Pro creates too many groupings, & 2) the text was often centred, 3) because the text was often grouped we had to make a lot of edits especially where often it was broken. Therefore we had to edit the text for the purpose of indexing, & realignment.

Too many groups? Interesting. I'm the guy who wrote LabelPro (well, the implementation in MAPublisher) and I'll see if I can add an option in the next version to let you forgo the groups. The intent was to make it easier to move a label & all of its parts in one go. Is it a matter of you wish some labels were grouped and others weren't? Or is it the multiple levels of grouping that are the problem? I'm definitely interested in making label post-placement easier if I can!

[sitesatlas]

Too many groups? Interesting. I'm the guy who wrote LabelPro (well, the implementation in MAPublisher) and I'll see if I can add an option in the next version to let you forgo the groups. The intent was to make it easier to move a label & all of its parts in one go. Is it a matter of you wish some labels were grouped and others weren't? Or is it the multiple levels of grouping that are the problem? I'm definitely interested in making label post-placement easier if I can!

I agree with some of Hasdrubal's observations about LabelPro. I find LabelPro to be most useful when labeling points. My only complaint is that for some reason, multi-line labels are not generated as one label with carriage returns to start new lines, but rather as groups of one-line labels. As a result, making changes to the label's alignment, font face or size, is much more complicated than it would be if the label was just one object.

As for line features, such as streams and streets, I usually use the more traditional "Label Features" function. That's because labels generated by LabelPro along curved lines can't be easily repositioned. With "Label Features", however, the label rides on a smoothed version of the entire line, so if you don't like its location, you can just slide the text to the place you want, flip it to the other side, etc.

Just my two cents...

[Jimbo]

I have other idea's that could improve Label Pro's performance but it's more of a MAPublisher 9.0 idea. In short I'm thinking of Character Styles being read by LabelPro & labeling a layer more then once by it's attribute. For example:

From Forestry.shp

Label all features when forcov = 1 & place it in text layer 1
Label all features from the same layer when forcov = 2 & place it in text layer 2

It would save the hassle of duplicating layers. And allow for different text styles. Maybe I should send you an e-mail with an example of what I'm talking about.

[Andrew Patterson]

I have other idea's that could improve Label Pro's performance but it's more of a MAPublisher 9.0 idea. In short I'm thinking of Character Styles being read by LabelPro & labeling a layer more then once by it's attribute. For example:

From Forestry.shp

Label all features when forcov = 1 & place it in text layer 1
Label all features from the same layer when forcov = 2 & place it in text layer 2

It would save the hassle of duplicating layers. And allow for different text styles. Maybe I should send you an e-mail with an example of what I'm talking about.

Actually, if I understand you correctly I think this is already on the drawing board for an upcoming version of LabelPro (maybe even 8.4 if I get to it). I actually promised Hans I'd get expressions into LabelPro in some form about by 8.2 but that just didn't happen I haven't forgotten though, and the way I'm planning to do it would almost let you do what you're trying to do. It may not take much to make that possible though.

As for character styles, I'd like to get them in as well, if only because they're a good workflow. The library we use is adding support for multiple-styles within the same label, but I'm still not sure how to make LabelPro work cleanly with Illustrator's character styles. The trouble is, I could add them, but unless its done right it could throw off the collision detection (or heck, just ruin all the labeling work). In general though, we'd like to get more of Illustrator's text options into LabelPro. I think our library provider is mostly using constants for many of the settings you guys have expressed interest in (e.g. kerning) so it's might be fairly easy to do.

As for labeling along lines -- we've heard that several times, but we're kind of stuck. One of the reasons LabelPro can do such a nice job is because it can break up a label into several pieces and place them at appropriate intervals. The trouble is, that most of the time those results simply cannot be replicated using the AI text engine, at least as a single label. I might be able to get multiple lines merged into a single label, but that's going to take quite a bit of trail & error to see if its even doable. And then I'll need to be comfortable saying it works at least 98% of the time. There isn't much use in such a thing if doing so defeats the very purpose of the feature (i.e. good looking labels).

[David Medeiros]

I've run into a labeling issue in standard MAPub I'm wondering about...

I want to label the index contours on a contour layer. Using the label on path function with the text tagger the entire line is turned into a text path for a single line of text. I can't then attach the same label in a new location on that same contour. I'd like the text on a path to only create a text path under the text, leaving the rest of the original path open to be labelled multiple times.

I know I can cut the new type path and label manually but that defeats the purpose of the text tagger tool IMO. Is there a work around for this in MAPub or does Label Pro address this issue?

[Andrew Patterson]

I've run into a labeling issue in standard MAPub I'm wondering about...

I want to label the index contours on a contour layer. Using the label on path function with the text tagger the entire line is turned into a text path for a single line of text. I can't then attach the same label in a new location on that same contour. I'd like the text on a path to only create a text path under the text, leaving the rest of the original path open to be labelled multiple times.

I know I can cut the new type path and label manually but that defeats the purpose of the text tagger tool IMO. Is there a work around for this in MAPub or does Label Pro address this issue?

I'm not 100% sure I'm following you -- do you just want to label a contour multiple times? You can repeat a label along a geometry in LabelPro with specified spacing. If that's not what you you mean though, I may need a visual example

Oh, and if you haven't tried 8.3 yet, we added support for knockouts and I have to say they look pretty damned nice on contours!

[David Medeiros]

I've run into a labeling issue in standard MAPub I'm wondering about...

I want to label the index contours on a contour layer. Using the label on path function with the text tagger the entire line is turned into a text path for a single line of text. I can't then attach the same label in a new location on that same contour. I'd like the text on a path to only create a text path under the text, leaving the rest of the original path open to be labelled multiple times.

I know I can cut the new type path and label manually but that defeats the purpose of the text tagger tool IMO. Is there a work around for this in MAPub or does Label Pro address this issue?

I'm not 100% sure I'm following you -- do you just want to label a contour multiple times? You can repeat a label along a geometry in LabelPro with specified spacing. If that's not what you you mean though, I may need a visual example

Oh, and if you haven't tried 8.3 yet, we added support for knockouts and I have to say they look pretty damned nice on contours!

I’m at work so I can’t take any pics, maybe I can refine my description:

Say you have a contour layer with index contours that need to be labeled, in line on the path itself. Most contours that stretch over a large enough area on the map will need multiple labels. Using the text tagger tool set to type on a path, when you tag the contour line for your label MAPub places the new label in the chosen text layer, when it does this it copies the line work over as the new text path, the entire line is now a text path. If you try to tag that same line again in a new spot MAPub won’t see the line work to be labeled because it’s now covered with a text path.

At this point you could lock the first text path and tag a new one on top of it. Or you could clip the path to delete unused path or manually label the new sections. All of this is sort of contrary to the function of the text tagger which should allow you to just touch and go in a sense.

It would be great if when the tagger tool is used for type on a path it only copied the portion of the original line directly under the label (or up to some pre set distance on either side). This would allow the user to tag a single line multiple times without extra locking, or clipping. Unless I’m missing something in how this can be done right now?


edited to add: I LOVE the new knock out tool for this by the way!

[Andrew Patterson]

Say you have a contour layer with index contours that need to be labeled, in line on the path itself. Most contours that stretch over a large enough area on the map will need multiple labels. Using the text tagger tool set to type on a path, when you tag the contour line for your label MAPub places the new label in the chosen text layer, when it does this it copies the line work over as the new text path, the entire line is now a text path. If you try to tag that same line again in a new spot MAPub won’t see the line work to be labeled because it’s now covered with a text path.

At this point you could lock the first text path and tag a new one on top of it. Or you could clip the path to delete unused path or manually label the new sections. All of this is sort of contrary to the function of the text tagger which should allow you to just touch and go in a sense.

It would be great if when the tagger tool is used for type on a path it only copied the portion of the original line directly under the label (or up to some pre set distance on either side). This would allow the user to tag a single line multiple times without extra locking, or clipping. Unless I’m missing something in how this can be done right now?

Hmmm. This might be oversimplifying, but it sounds like the Tagger should ignore text-paths on clicks. The way tool clicking works in Illustrator is that it essentially drops a 'ray' straight down on the page where you click and Illustrator will respond with a list of art hit by the 'ray'. I'm not sure if this is a bug or just dumb behaviour, but I think (caveats apply: I'm not looking at actual code as I write this!) it should probably be easy to make it ignore text-on-a-path paths when Tagging.

Would that solve the problem? Or is a more complicated fix needed? If you need a single text-on-a-path that essentially labels repeatedly (spaced out) along the same path, that's not really possible in Illustrator.

[David Medeiros]

Say you have a contour layer with index contours that need to be labeled, in line on the path itself. Most contours that stretch over a large enough area on the map will need multiple labels. Using the text tagger tool set to type on a path, when you tag the contour line for your label MAPub places the new label in the chosen text layer, when it does this it copies the line work over as the new text path, the entire line is now a text path. If you try to tag that same line again in a new spot MAPub won’t see the line work to be labeled because it’s now covered with a text path.

At this point you could lock the first text path and tag a new one on top of it. Or you could clip the path to delete unused path or manually label the new sections. All of this is sort of contrary to the function of the text tagger which should allow you to just touch and go in a sense.

It would be great if when the tagger tool is used for type on a path it only copied the portion of the original line directly under the label (or up to some pre set distance on either side). This would allow the user to tag a single line multiple times without extra locking, or clipping. Unless I’m missing something in how this can be done right now?

Hmmm. This might be oversimplifying, but it sounds like the Tagger should ignore text-paths on clicks. The way tool clicking works in Illustrator is that it essentially drops a 'ray' straight down on the page where you click and Illustrator will respond with a list of art hit by the 'ray'. I'm not sure if this is a bug or just dumb behaviour, but I think (caveats apply: I'm not looking at actual code as I write this!) it should probably be easy to make it ignore text-on-a-path paths when Tagging.

Would that solve the problem? Or is a more complicated fix needed? If you need a single text-on-a-path that essentially labels repeatedly (spaced out) along the same path, that's not really possible in Illustrator.

So in your change the text tagger would look past the type path to the line work underneath and allow you to create any number of multiple, separate labels from that one piece of line art? That would work. The only issue I see is that you will have stacked full type paths meaning changes to lower type may require you to drill down by locking over paths?

Just to clarify, I'm definitely not talking about relabeling a single type path. What would work the best (and is probably way more complicated to enact) is if the tagger tool only cloned the section of the line directly under your new type leaving the rest of the original line uncovered and open to be tagged again and again in other spots. Each new tag is a new type on a path, the only change being the tagger is not putting the new type on a full length copy of the original line. The issue here is that if you need to nudge the path around a bit you may not have any line to work with, hence the suggestion to add a tolerance for adding path to either side of the new label.

That being said your method would solve the major problem I see with this use for the tagger tool.

[Andrew Patterson]

Just to clarify, I'm definitely not talking about relabeling a single type path. What would work the best (and is probably way more complicated to enact) is if the tagger tool only cloned the section of the line directly under your new type leaving the rest of the original line uncovered and open to be tagged again and again in other spots. Each new tag is a new type on a path, the only change being the tagger is not putting the new type on a full length copy of the original line. The issue here is that if you need to nudge the path around a bit you may not have any line to work with, hence the suggestion to add a tolerance for adding path to either side of the new label.

That being said your method would solve the major problem I see with this use for the tagger tool.

As luck would have it, I think we have the tools to 'clip' the path to the label generated now -- though I'm not 100% sure. I believe we use something like that for the Knockouts, but I could be wrong. If so, there's reason not to do both Though I suspect the 'clip' part would have to be a preference.

At any rate, I'll file these both into our bug-tracking database. With a little luck we'll see either or both in 8.4!

[Andrew Patterson]

Hmmm. I just tried it, and it looks like it's already ignoring text-on-a-path. If you have a simple test file that demonstrates your original problem, could you email it to me so I can try it? At the moment, I don't seem to have any trouble flooding my test line with baseline-centered labels, but maybe I'm doing something wrong.