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#1
EOSGIS

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Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com

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#2
Jean-Louis

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Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com


Hey Las Vegas!
I did (participated in doing) a major pictorial map for Vegas back in 1993.
This was when I was working for Unique Media in Toronto.
I cant post an image of it for copyright reasons but you can probably find it somewhere on the web.
It was a project with an insane amount of detail that required about 3000 man-hours and is still on sale
This was also in the era before Google even before computers...all done with rapidographs and watercolour )
Jean-Louis Rheault
Montreal


#3
EOSGIS

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I dont know if the map you mention may be one the client (a magazine) gived me as another source of data. It was one with all the suburbs of Las Vegas and as I remember it, it was wonderful. It has a great amount of detail...every house with its details... too much to make something similar in 5 days as the magazine asked me.
If that was your map... wow!!!! congratulations Jean-Louis.


Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com


Hey Las Vegas!
I did (participated in doing) a major pictorial map for Vegas back in 1993.
This was when I was working for Unique Media in Toronto.
I cant post an image of it for copyright reasons but you can probably find it somewhere on the web.
It was a project with an insane amount of detail that required about 3000 man-hours and is still on sale
This was also in the era before Google even before computers...all done with rapidographs and watercolour )



#4
Derek Tonn

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Hi Fernando!

The first thing I thought when reviewing that map is how the blueish-purpleish background color is a bit distracting. Las Vegas is in a very arid region with lots of sand and scrubby brush...so I think more of a sand type of background color might subliminally make a bit more visual sense to end users. You might have needed that color to tie into some larger design piece! However, if you didn't, a shift in base color (with a subsequent shift in the color of several buildings away from very light colors), might be worth a shot.

The inconsistent treatment of curb-cuts at street intersections might be something you could tighten-up a bit too. A little more consistency might be a little less visually distracting. Either that, or I'm just a very anal-retentive map designer...and 99.9% of end users would never notice. :lol:

Hope that helps!

Derek
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#5
EOSGIS

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Hi Derek,
I know how Las Vegas looks like, I've been there ;-) ... desertic... but ... How does it look inside the casinos and around the strip at noon? And if the photographs of the article in the magazine talks about "Living Las Vegas"? Lights, people, machines, The Strip, cars, night ...
Well, this is a map from the scale, proportions, streets... but it's also a drawing that have to "coexist" with the article in the magazine. It's blue, because of this.
Other thing may be you dont like the blue tone used ;-)
The curb-cuts... ok, you're right indeed...
best regards

Hi Fernando!

The first thing I thought when reviewing that map is how the blueish-purpleish background color is a bit distracting. Las Vegas is in a very arid region with lots of sand and scrubby brush...so I think more of a sand type of background color might subliminally make a bit more visual sense to end users. You might have needed that color to tie into some larger design piece! However, if you didn't, a shift in base color (with a subsequent shift in the color of several buildings away from very light colors), might be worth a shot.

The inconsistent treatment of curb-cuts at street intersections might be something you could tighten-up a bit too. A little more consistency might be a little less visually distracting. Either that, or I'm just a very anal-retentive map designer...and 99.9% of end users would never notice. :lol:

Hope that helps!

Derek



#6
Dennis McClendon

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A couple of things I'm curious about:

There are some random kinks in the curblines and even centerlines (such as on the Strip at Desert Inn Road). On a map like this it seems more proper to show the roads more theoretically, as smooth regular lines.

I also found it a little odd, on a 3-D map, to show the freeway as just another surface street. Since the hotels are three-dimensional, I would be inclined to show the freeway overpasses.
Dennis McClendon, Chicago CartoGraphics
chicagocarto.com

#7
EOSGIS

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Hi Dennis,
Well, I dont remember why the curblines have that problem. It's a map from 2005, so the only thing I may do is suppose why the problem may have happened. So... I have no idea. Usually this have to do with a problem about conversion between programs, but sincerely.. I cant remember in this case where the problem was.
The point about the freeways, just take into account 2 things:
a) The time to accomplish all the drawings was just 4 or 5 days in a rush for a magazine. And we are talkinf of 2005, no google sketch up, no google earth, no 3D data, just maps, perhaps a satelite image and photos of the hotels...
B) The freeway is not important for the magazine, neither the arid color of Nevada or the airport. The important for them was the hotels, the strip and some attractions...
Maybe the problem with this "map" is that is more an illustration for a travel magazine than a detailed map. No one expects a turist to travel to Las Vegas with this drawing ;-)
Usualy Magazines & news papers ask a cartographer or illustrator for a quick, original, and informative content in (usually) rush rush rush time...

A couple of things I'm curious about:

There are some random kinks in the curblines and even centerlines (such as on the Strip at Desert Inn Road). On a map like this it seems more proper to show the roads more theoretically, as smooth regular lines.

I also found it a little odd, on a 3-D map, to show the freeway as just another surface street. Since the hotels are three-dimensional, I would be inclined to show the freeway overpasses.



#8
Derek Tonn

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Hi Derek,
I know how Las Vegas looks like, I've been there ;-) ... desertic... but ... How does it look inside the casinos and around the strip at noon? And if the photographs of the article in the magazine talks about "Living Las Vegas"? Lights, people, machines, The Strip, cars, night ...
Well, this is a map from the scale, proportions, streets... but it's also a drawing that have to "coexist" with the article in the magazine. It's blue, because of this.
Other thing may be you dont like the blue tone used
;-)


I guess for me, planimetric-styled maps can/will always take a great deal more liberty in altering or distorting reality related to color, while bird's eye/oblique requires much more careful attention to detail related to that particular design element. For a great-many users of bird's eye/oblique style map illustrations, they aren't only looking at the shape of a structure from a particular vantage point! They are looking for that "beige colored building with a red tiled roof." The type of illustration you have prepared of Las Vegas is very similar to many others I have seen! However, I think end-user design almost necessitates a more "real-world" color palette in effort to make the piece as effective as a wayfinding/navigational resource as is possible. If it's simply a "design," that's a different story entirely! As a "wayfinding" resource though, I think different rules often apply.

We also have clients that ask us to stray far from reality related to color. However, my own opinion or bias is that it pulls away from the potential effectiveness of the illustration. If people aren't navigating by "North," GPS coordinates and distance, they are navigating via shape, color and the relationship of different elements to one another. At least that's how I see it. Not a criticism of your illustration or your choice of color in any way! Just more than a decade of client and end-user feedback and 38+ years of life experience (as a recovering right-brainer who primarily sees the world in shapes and color vs. coordinates and distances). :)
Derek Tonn
Founder and CEO
mapformation, LLC

datonn@mapformation.com
http://www.mapformation.com

#9
EOSGIS

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Hi Derek, ok, take it as a design, more than a "map" ;-) .
you say: "as a recovering right-brainer who primarily sees the world in shapes and color vs. coordinates and distances"
;) Great debate... If you put it all together we have a MAP ... In this 3D view, as a Design, just take into account the "relative" position of attractions respect to the rest of them. Let me say this way: "imagine its a visitors map illustration in which you know what direction to take to reach something. The map/article refers with texts and photographs the information. Just the mere base of cartography (previous to coordinates and maths): Distances and directions. No more. The rest.. is a "decorated" design...
A more precise thing, would be this:
http://www.carto-gra...na...nº101.html
But they are different things... :rolleyes:


Hi Derek,
I know how Las Vegas looks like, I've been there ;-) ... desertic... but ... How does it look inside the casinos and around the strip at noon? And if the photographs of the article in the magazine talks about "Living Las Vegas"? Lights, people, machines, The Strip, cars, night ...
Well, this is a map from the scale, proportions, streets... but it's also a drawing that have to "coexist" with the article in the magazine. It's blue, because of this.
Other thing may be you dont like the blue tone used
;-)


I guess for me, planimetric-styled maps can/will always take a great deal more liberty in altering or distorting reality related to color, while bird's eye/oblique requires much more careful attention to detail related to that particular design element. For a great-many users of bird's eye/oblique style map illustrations, they aren't only looking at the shape of a structure from a particular vantage point! They are looking for that "beige colored building with a red tiled roof." The type of illustration you have prepared of Las Vegas is very similar to many others I have seen! However, I think end-user design almost necessitates a more "real-world" color palette in effort to make the piece as effective as a wayfinding/navigational resource as is possible. If it's simply a "design," that's a different story entirely! As a "wayfinding" resource though, I think different rules often apply.

We also have clients that ask us to stray far from reality related to color. However, my own opinion or bias is that it pulls away from the potential effectiveness of the illustration. If people aren't navigating by "North," GPS coordinates and distance, they are navigating via shape, color and the relationship of different elements to one another. At least that's how I see it. Not a criticism of your illustration or your choice of color in any way! Just more than a decade of client and end-user feedback and 38+ years of life experience (as a recovering right-brainer who primarily sees the world in shapes and color vs. coordinates and distances). :)



#10
Derek Tonn

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Hi Fernando!

Yes...wonderful discussion! Thanks for participating.

One of my frustrations with most of current mainstream cartography (a chip on my shoulder that I sometimes let cloud my vision or judgment...and/or let escape my mouth, making me a bull in a china shop and angering some people and/or bruising a few egos) is the whole idea that numeric distance and direction (N/S/E/W) is the "correct," "educated" or "proper" way of measuring space.

Take that oblique view of the building from your link (attached). Why is someone saying "the fourth window to the left of the marble columns on the first floor" an invalid or inferior unit of measurement when it comes to the concept of a map? "West" or "15 meters" was never mentioned in the course of that brief set of directions...but for (in my estimation) about 50% of the population, that's how their brains are wired. Yet for the other 50% of the population, where most modern cartographers seem to fall on this issue, it's "not a map" because there's no scale, distances or North arrow.

My question is why. Up until a few decades ago, only the VERY few in our world navigated via distance. When Columbus found the New World, did his GPS unit get him here, or did the sun and the stars in the night sky? :) When the pioneers settled the Western United States, did they get where they were going via units of measurement, or did they navigate landmark to landmark?

It is the most fascinating topic related to cartography and map design on this planet to me...and one that I continue to try and really think through and explore when I'm not TOO busy trying to pay the bills. Sorry for the long reply.

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#11
EOSGIS

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Hi Derek,
You are right, when I explain cartography to students, the first paragraph is about the origin of cartography, and what I say is just that, initially... distance and direction .. and a story of graphics about landmarks that voyagers can identify. what next in history? well go to the sea or desert where there are no landmarks...so... we used astronomy to identify position based in sun and well known stars... next problem ? time... to know "longitude" or sun and stars position in W-E movents... and there we go in history to actual scientiphic cartography...
The pretty thing about maps or plans, in 2D or in 3D is that if they are correctly done in their "angle and measurements" they can be correctly re-interpreted onto new " projections. Indpendently of what the cartographer or artist can provide to make a more pleasure view.
I mean, a practical example... if you take an ancient map, i.e: XIV century, and try to georreference it in arcgis, you will see that main continental Europe's coast will fit onto actual Eurpoe's coast with a second degree adjustment. And if you use a Spline one, it will fit better. But you will also notice that "bad known" zones will never fit, and that inside land cities will not fit as well as coast. The use of those maps was to navigate in sea... but they are wonderfuly ilustrated and described in land areas, so you can arrive Paris from Berlin seeing illustrated descriptions, roads, having an idea of distances and landmarks. The coast is more perfect "mathematically" than land.
And , i.e: the Museo del Prado drawing , or the Las Vegas one is indeed "manipulated" in the prespective to achieve a more pleasant view for the observer... but the prorportions dont chage in the whole.
We can make accurate maps (topographic, etc..) or artistic maps, but what differentiates a cartographer from an illustrator is mainly that we try to maintain certain rules that meke the map "readable" and with use.
Sorry for the long reply

Hi Fernando!

Yes...wonderful discussion! Thanks for participating.

One of my frustrations with most of current mainstream cartography (a chip on my shoulder that I sometimes let cloud my vision or judgment...and/or let escape my mouth, making me a bull in a china shop and angering some people and/or bruising a few egos) is the whole idea that numeric distance and direction (N/S/E/W) is the "correct," "educated" or "proper" way of measuring space.

Take that oblique view of the building from your link (attached). Why is someone saying "the fourth window to the left of the marble columns on the first floor" an invalid or inferior unit of measurement when it comes to the concept of a map? "West" or "15 meters" was never mentioned in the course of that brief set of directions...but for (in my estimation) about 50% of the population, that's how their brains are wired. Yet for the other 50% of the population, where most modern cartographers seem to fall on this issue, it's "not a map" because there's no scale, distances or North arrow.

My question is why. Up until a few decades ago, only the VERY few in our world navigated via distance. When Columbus found the New World, did his GPS unit get him here, or did the sun and the stars in the night sky? :) When the pioneers settled the Western United States, did they get where they were going via units of measurement, or did they navigate landmark to landmark?

It is the most fascinating topic related to cartography and map design on this planet to me...and one that I continue to try and really think through and explore when I'm not TOO busy trying to pay the bills. Sorry for the long reply.



#12
MapMedia

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This is really nice - I like the colors, very Vegas in the tourist attraction map way, not the Vegas is in the desert way.
The orientation is unique though I really think map readers, even Vegas tourists, can figure things out pretty quickly using your map.
Well done.

#13
William Tipton

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The part that you worked on sans the cut-out pics makes for a much better map.









Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com



#14
funcity

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Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com

Will you update this map anytime soon?

#15
EOSGIS

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Escuse me for not replying till today... I've been really occupies and I did not see the posts till today.
I doubt I will update this map unless someone needs a new Las Vegas map of this king. Since great part of my maps are for magazines and other book publishers, I dont have time to "update" anything. In 98% I dont "recycle" a map, I just begin a new one.
Best regards
Fernando

Hello,
Another example from my "box". This was made by drawing in illustrator 10 in 2005,... in those years google earth was not working :( , so I needed to work using photograps and maps...
best regards
Fernando J. Sánchez Menéndez
http://www.carto-grafia.com

Will you update this map anytime soon?






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