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#61
Casey Greene

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...if I had a dollar for every massage therapist, winery, and cafe that used it, I could retire.


:lol: amen :lol:
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#62
Andreas Michos

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Hello all,

I have just purchased the PF DIN professional font family.
Do you think that this font is eligible for use in 1:25000-1:50000 scale paper maps?
I am using at the moment the super classic Arial-Times combination which bores me a bit.

Does anyone know any good serif font that would look fine with the DIN font?
I am tempted to use the DIN exclusively, but I am not sure about the clarity of DIN font in maps.

Also I am labeling using bilingual fonts(DIN works well with greek), so I am trying to find a serif font((Not Times) that would be nice,free,contemporary and classic at the same time.

Thanks to all for bearing with me.
I am open to any suggestions and ideas.

Health to everybody

Andreas

#63
Hans van der Maarel

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Hello Andreas,

I moved your post to this existing topic.

The PF DIN font, that's the commercially available version of DIN 1451, right? I've been considering using that one, or at least giving it a try, for street mapping. There's 2 free copies of it (condensed and extra condensed) as part of the Roadgeek font set and I've done some preliminary testing with them, but never really pushed the issue (partly because I'm very pleased with the Frutiger family in that capacity)
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Red Geographics
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#64
Dennis McClendon

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Does anyone know any good serif font that would look fine with the DIN font?
I am tempted to use the DIN exclusively, but I am not sure about the clarity of DIN font in maps.


The same aspects that made DIN useful on road signs and number plates make it a good choice for small type on maps. It has a large x-height and generous sidebearings (space between letters). However, I find it a little mechanical looking. I prefer sans-serifs with a bit more grace, such as Frutiger, Stone Sans, or Myriad.

In addition, DIN is slightly condensed (the Os are ovals, not circles), and a complementary face should have similar geometry. That makes it a little tricky to find a complementary serif face. Utopia looks pretty good with it. Another choice that comes to mind is Adrian Frutiger's Linotype Centennial, though I don't have it on my computer to take a quick look. ITC Gamma might also work nicely.
Dennis McClendon, Chicago CartoGraphics
chicagocarto.com

#65
Dustin Edge

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Hi Everyone

I was having a look at one of the maps that was just posted here and it got me thinking about Fonts. Considering these days there are a tonne of fonts to choose.....but when deadlines are looming we all seem to go with a few standard fonts.

I hardly ever venture past Arial (with various halos etc) with Swiss Blk Out for my maps....but am curious to know what others use....

Cheers

Dustin
Kind Regards,

Dustin


Dustin Edge
Snr GIS Analyst
AECOM Australia

#66
Hans van der Maarel

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I've merged Dustin's question into this thread.
Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
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#67
sitesatlas

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I like the Frutiger family, but I only have Frutiger Linotype and it doesn't include many accented characters, so I've been using Lucida Grande quite a bit. When I need italic serif type for web graphics, I often use Georgia, which is legible even in small sizes.
Michael Borop
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#68
DaveB

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For most maps I tend to stick with Arial and Times New Roman, but that's because we have to be sure anyone who opens our sample maps/maps for "how-to's"/templates has the fonts we used.

For historical-type maps I like to play around a bit and have used Blackadder (for a few limited things, mostly map surrounds), the Mayflower set from P22, and occasionally a few other decorative fonts (sparingly) such as Castellar for selected labels.
Dave Barnes
Esri
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#69
Charles Syrett

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I've seen Arial mentioned a few times, and it needs to be said again: in general, the graphic design industry does not look kindly on this Helvetica hybrid.
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html
Heck, I remember a time (in the 90s) when even legitimate Helvetica was frowned upon, being regarded as overused and tired! Seems a new generation of designers has revived it -- thankfully, because it's still one of my favorites, along with Myriad. Helvetica is generally a better choice than Arial, if you don't have to worry about what fonts people have on their machines.

Charles Syrett
Map Graphics
http://www.mapgraphics.com

#70
Hans van der Maarel

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Heck, I remember a time (in the 90s) when even legitimate Helvetica was frowned upon, being regarded as overused and tired!


The Graphics Design Museum in Breda has a quote on the wall:

"Helvetica is the Beatles of type, just like The Beatles are the Helvetica of music"
Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
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#71
Boundary Maven

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We use Interstate quite a bit - not free, but awesome legibility and it comes in a variety of weights as well as having compressed and condensed versions. Perfect for mapping. Garth Graphic (serif) is a nice font to pair with it - elegant, readable, also available in a variety of weights (and it has a condensed version, too).

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#72
Charles Syrett

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"Going in and out of style
But guaranteed to raise a smile!"
B)

Charles Syrett
Map Graphics
http://www.mapgraphics.com

Heck, I remember a time (in the 90s) when even legitimate Helvetica was frowned upon, being regarded as overused and tired!


The Graphics Design Museum in Breda has a quote on the wall:

"Helvetica is the Beatles of type, just like The Beatles are the Helvetica of music"



#73
Hans van der Maarel

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"Going in and out of style
But guaranteed to raise a smile!"


Exactly! Dang, if only I could rephrase "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" with something type related... "Sgt Upper's Lonely Type Case Hand" is the best I can come up with right now...
Hans van der Maarel - Cartotalk Editor
Red Geographics
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#74
natcase

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We use Helvetica, but tend to stock with the condensed range. I like how it looks more than the uncondensed version. For in-house maps, we mostly use Avenir and Frutiger, though we sometimes get more addventurous... did one all in Myriad condensed a couple years ago, and it turned out pretty well.

I think Univers is underrated. Very plain, very legible. I've used it for our phone-book maps. Easy to abuse, but a good, unobtrusive font.

For serif, we migrate amongst Minion, Sabon, Garamond... depends on usage.

I also am partial to Glypha, all caps, with lots and lots of kerning, for area type.

We just adopted Griffith Gothic for our company identity font. I also like it for maps that have a relatively loose type density. We used to use News Gothic for this (it's the font Griffith comes from) but it has no italics and only 3 weights.


---

Swiss Typographers Lowly Fonts Club Band

Nat Case
INCase, LLC

Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
maphead.blogspot.com



#75
Derek Tonn

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I've seen Arial mentioned a few times, and it needs to be said again: in general, the graphic design industry does not look kindly on this Helvetica hybrid.


If the graphic design industry is anything like all the classes I took back in the late 1980s and all the people I've known in the business since then, the graphic design industry does not look kindly on ANYTHING popular with people "pretending" to be graphic designers. If Frutiger (another vote from me for that one, as I LOVE that font family) is the bees-knees with people who don't have much training in leading, kerning, contrast, color, the balance of positive and negative space on a palette/page, etc., then graphic designers will hate/mock/avoid it. If everyone in the main-stream thinks that Arial is a "scourge," I'll all but guarantee you that it'll start appearing in more designs out of graphic design shops...just to thumb their noses at all the "cattle" or "lemmings" that some perceive the rest of us to be. :D

I'm not poking fun at others either...as what I do in the greater map design field probably has a LOT more to do with graphic design than it does with traditional cartography...and my classroom education reinforces that distinction.

It's like when I was in high school. Hanging out with the kids who "rebelled against the mainstream"...listening to different music, dressing differently, etc. Mocking conformity...when they themselves were conforming to one another (or at least the leader(s) of that group and what they liked, what they listened to, etc.) and giving in to peer pressure.

If your clients and end-users love Arial and/or it works very well in establishing a look/pop while enhancing usability, use it. Don't let others get to you for those decisions...and don't convert all your design text to "CartoTalk Narrow" just so that others in the industry will give you a passing grade.

1. End-users and legibility
2. You and your own preferences
3. Your peers in the industry

That's how to prioritize decisions such as this, IMHO. Don't fall into the trap of "3-2-1." Being a "conformist" and/or not running with the cool kids is A-OK too...as long as you're getting the job done, your clients are happy, and your end-users are being very well-served.
Derek Tonn
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mapformation, LLC

datonn@mapformation.com
http://www.mapformation.com




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