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Campground Map for the Truckee Area

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#1
Esther Mandeno

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Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to say what a great site this is. I'm glad I decided to join.

With that said, I'm ready for some feedback! Except, it's really hard to get a map image under the 500k limit. I couldn't do it, so I'll just provide a link:

http://www.digitalma.../images/map.jpg

Sorry it takes so long to load. I exported the image at 72dpi and it shows. The original isn't so pixelated. The map is intended as a poster map, designed to be printed at 18" x 24". I was hoping to use the map as a promotional piece. I have a few clients in town that I wanted to get them to put this map on their office wall. Then, depending on any feedback I get, I was going to try to get local stores to sell them as posters. My husband already gave me a few basic pointers (i.e., have to be clearer about the different colored campground icons in the legend, text size needs to be bigger for some of the water features, etc.) but anything you all can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Esther Mandeno
------
Esther Mandeno
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

#2
Hans van der Maarel

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Looks nice! What software did you use to produce this?

For starters, I agree with what your husband said re. the campground icons and water text (darker blue would make them more visible too). It's hard to judge though, since it's shrunk down. Can you post a small section of it at full size?

Regarding those campground icons... you're using color to indicate who's maintaining the campground, but there's only 4 options anyway. I think it could work if you give them all the same color and just label each of them with the name, responsible body and phone number.

Do you need bathymetry? I mean, it's great that the data is available and it looks awesome, but if I'm looking for a campground, do I really need to know what the bottom of the lake looks like?

How about adding some more point of interest? Some touristy stuff, Eagle Falls SP is one that I remember visiting. Maybe the casinos in Stateline?

Looks like the South Lake Tahoe / Stateline polygon doesn't match up with the lake coastline.
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#3
BioGeoMan

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Hi Esther!!

Welcome to Cartotalk and I hope the site helps you in your mapping efforts. Your Lake Tahoe map is looking good so far, I have a few suggestions:

  • The color of the Lake Tahoe text makes it difficult to read, consider making it significantly lighter or darker.
  • May want to move the legend items off of the lake and into a box in the lower left corner along with a scale.
  • May want to consider not including the CA/NV border across the lake, just have it on the land and label it twice, once on in the south, the other in the north.
  • Im not a fan of the color contrast between the fill color of the smaller lakes and their shorelines, made popular by NPS maps, but that is just my opinion :).
  • The mountain peak labels and elevations could be a larger font, I can't read them. You probably can with the full resolution version, but they still seem pretty small.
  • For the campground legend items, instead of spelling out the color, place the symbol there instead. Map readers have an easier time associating identical symbols than reading a color and finding that symbol.
  • Maybe use a different color other than blue for your roads, you don't want to confuse them with streams and rivers.
  • In your legend items consider using something other than the default ESRI symbols, unless you created this map exclusively in ArcView.
  • May want to consider using a different font color for your towns and cities, white doesn't pop like 80% black would.
  • The smaller lake labels need to be darker especially when they are next to the lake and not within it, the darker topography makes them hard to read.
  • Maybe include a few bathymetric depth readings since you have that data, just like the mountain peaks on land, it would be interesting to see deep parts of the lake too!

Hope this helps,
Michael.

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#4
Esther Mandeno

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Looks nice! What software did you use to produce this?

For starters, I agree with what your husband said re. the campground icons and water text (darker blue would make them more visible too). It's hard to judge though, since it's shrunk down. Can you post a small section of it at full size?

Regarding those campground icons... you're using color to indicate who's maintaining the campground, but there's only 4 options anyway. I think it could work if you give them all the same color and just label each of them with the name, responsible body and phone number.

Do you need bathymetry? I mean, it's great that the data is available and it looks awesome, but if I'm looking for a campground, do I really need to know what the bottom of the lake looks like?

How about adding some more point of interest? Some touristy stuff, Eagle Falls SP is one that I remember visiting. Maybe the casinos in Stateline?

Looks like the South Lake Tahoe / Stateline polygon doesn't match up with the lake coastline.

Hello Hans,

Thanks for looking! I used ArcMap, nothing else. Good idea about using just one color and labeling each with more info as there should be enough space on the map.

Here's a portion of the map exported at 300dpi:
http://www.digitalma...images/map2.jpg

Good idea about adding more touristy stuff. I think it's actually Eagle Falls in Emerald Bay State Park. I didn't add any of the state parks (both California and Nevada) but I guess that's a no brainer, should have added them.

Hmm, the bathymetry, yes why add it, well, that's a good question. I guess I added it because ever since the data came out it seems that just about every map with Lake Tahoe now has it. Plus, otherwise it's just a big light blue spot on the map. Maybe I can tone it down so that it's just barely showing, but then at that point, why have it at all, right? I'll think about that one...

Yikes! I didn't even notice that the urban polygon spilled out into the lake! I'll fix that...

Thanks!!
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Esther Mandeno
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

#5
Esther Mandeno

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Hi Esther!!

Welcome to Cartotalk and I hope the site helps you in your mapping efforts. Your Lake Tahoe map is looking good so far, I have a few suggestions:

  • The color of the Lake Tahoe text makes it difficult to read, consider making it significantly lighter or darker.
  • May want to move the legend items off of the lake and into a box in the lower left corner along with a scale.
  • May want to consider not including the CA/NV border across the lake, just have it on the land and label it twice, once on in the south, the other in the north.
  • Im not a fan of the color contrast between the fill color of the smaller lakes and their shorelines, made popular by NPS maps, but that is just my opinion :).
  • The mountain peak labels and elevations could be a larger font, I can't read them. You probably can with the full resolution version, but they still seem pretty small.
  • For the campground legend items, instead of spelling out the color, place the symbol there instead. Map readers have an easier time associating identical symbols than reading a color and finding that symbol.
  • Maybe use a different color other than blue for your roads, you don't want to confuse them with streams and rivers.
  • In your legend items consider using something other than the default ESRI symbols, unless you created this map exclusively in ArcView.
  • May want to consider using a different font color for your towns and cities, white doesn't pop like 80% black would.
  • The smaller lake labels need to be darker especially when they are next to the lake and not within it, the darker topography makes them hard to read.
  • Maybe include a few bathymetric depth readings since you have that data, just like the mountain peaks on land, it would be interesting to see deep parts of the lake too!

Hope this helps,
Michael.

Wow, all really good suggestions - it's all those subtle things that make a good map, right? I have some work to do.

Thanks!
------
Esther Mandeno
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

#6
Justin Procopio

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• Looking good so far... I’m glad you posted the enlarged image clip.

• I like the bathymetry. I’m not familiar with the area but I’m sure someone who sees the map will take a boat out or would just like to get an idea how deep the water is. I’d also like to see how things look with out any stroke on the water features.

• I’m not a big fan of the nautical line as a divider for your key. I agree with moving the key to the bottom left corner.
• Your logo placement is awkward, I’d rather see a background fill than have it cross boundary lines and whatnot, especially if it has to be all white. You said you want to use this as a promotional piece, don’t be afraid to make your logo (and maybe add contact info – a website or phone number) stand out a little more than normal.

• Some of the numbers in the routes (ovals) don’t look centered.

• As already suggested use the actual symbols, not words in your key, and get rid of the black campsite symbol, it does not appear anywhere else in your map.

• The blue campsite symbol blends in with too many other features, try another color.
• Can you label the urban areas?

Regards,

---------------------------------
Justin Procopio

#7
razornole

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Hello Esther,

Short of Lake Tahoe, the wilderness areas seem to be highest in the visual hierarchy. This is a map about camping areas, not wilderness camping. Speaking of which, I'm confused with Mt. Rose Wilderness. Why is there a line dividing the two, and what is the space/polygon floating by itself (I'm guessing Mt. Rose, but why make me guess)?
I think that reversing your Lake Tahoe text would work great. Not white, but a very light cyan (like the color from the shallow part of the lake) over the deeper portion of the lake.
I agree with others that the heavy, dark line around the lakes is too much. If you think about symbology with lake tahoe, dark=deep and light=shallow, your smaller lakes are reverse. I guess that I am just not a fan of using different symbology for similar features (in this case water bodies). Areal extent does not equal more importance, ask anyone from Andorra or Liechtenstein.
As for me, I could care less who maintains the campsite (thought that info is relevant), all I want to know is where can I camp without an RV pulling up next to me. However, you have mapped the wilderness areas so I know where I'll go and I won't have to worry about that.

kru
"Ah, to see the world with the eyes of the gods is geography--to know cities and tribes, mountains and rivers, earth and sea, this is our gift."
Strabo 22AD

#8
Esther Mandeno

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• Looking good so far... I’m glad you posted the enlarged image clip.

• I like the bathymetry. I’m not familiar with the area but I’m sure someone who sees the map will take a boat out or would just like to get an idea how deep the water is. I’d also like to see how things look with out any stroke on the water features.

• I’m not a big fan of the nautical line as a divider for your key. I agree with moving the key to the bottom left corner.
• Your logo placement is awkward, I’d rather see a background fill than have it cross boundary lines and whatnot, especially if it has to be all white. You said you want to use this as a promotional piece, don’t be afraid to make your logo (and maybe add contact info – a website or phone number) stand out a little more than normal.

• Some of the numbers in the routes (ovals) don’t look centered.

• As already suggested use the actual symbols, not words in your key, and get rid of the black campsite symbol, it does not appear anywhere else in your map.

• The blue campsite symbol blends in with too many other features, try another color.
• Can you label the urban areas?

Regards,


Thank you for your feedback! Yes, I removed the lake outlines and it does make a difference (improved). Unfortunately that layer is also the streams, so I'll just have to tease out the lake shores. In regards to your second point, I'm bad about promoting myself, but you are right, I'm working on where to place that info...once I get all the changes made (might not be till next week), I'll post it again.

Thanks again!
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Esther Mandeno
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

#9
DaveB

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Not being familiar with the area I wonder about the subtle tan to green color ramp on the terrain. To me that looks like the lower elevations are dry and that there is a little bit of vegetation on the higher elevations, but it's pretty subtle.
Otherwise, looking good!
Dave Barnes
Esri
Product Engineer
Map Geek

#10
Justin Procopio

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somehow my post for another topic ended up here. sorry about that

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Justin Procopio

#11
MapMedia

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Very nicely done. Very pleasing to the eye, especially the hillshade.

I would move the title box and legend to a corner, maybe lower-left and keep the bathymetry of the lake as a spectacle of the map.
Since there is a lot of empty open space and this is a camping site map, maybe inform users of special natural features in the area too? These could include elevation markers of peaks and some lowest points in the lake, etc., nothing full flown but the major ones and doing so will sprinkle info into the empty spaces.

City names could be black not white.

I would go with a sanserif font for map theme labels (campgrounds), GillSans, Zurich, or Helvetica maybe - just my opinion.

The map frame has bars that do not match up. Is this intended? If you can't make the frame in Illustrator, ArcMap will create one.

Great work on this project thus far!! Thanks for sharing.

#12
Esther Mandeno

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Hello Everyone,

I read all the comments above and made some changes. The new map is here:
http://www.digitalma...images/map3.jpg

Sorry about the large size (about 9MB). I still have to figure out how to export something clean but small...

Thanks in advance for any feedback. I hope to start printing out a few to distribute this week.
Esther
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Esther Mandeno
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

#13
BioGeoMan

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Esther! Nice improvement. Thanks for sharing and good luck distributing your map in the Tahoe community.

Michael.

Michael Scisco

BioGeoCreations
Albuquerque, NM

505-603-3636
biogeocreations.com





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