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#1
Casey Greene

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This map is the first of four pages that are in a mini-atlas of the Big Island of Hawaii for a company that rents VW Vanagon campers to tourist. It's intent is to convey where key amenities are located on the island. The symbols are a modified park service set (is this legal?). I wanted to try something new, so the type is set in Calibri.

I tried to make the map as clear and clean as possible, because those who use it are probably going to be behind the wheel of an awkward vehicle they are not use to (you who have driven a vw van know what i'm talking about) and trying to read the map at the same time.

Anyways, i'd love to hear what you think, especially what you don't like and think should be changed, added, or taken away.





ps. the map is a little on the big size (775kb)
pss. sorry, the quality isn't great...it looks worlds better vectorized, but the file is way to big in that format.
psss. darn-it...the inner-most circle that represents population points is suppose to have a white fill...CMYK to RGB probably did it.
i'll try to fix it here soon.

Attached Files


Casey Greene - Cartographer - Adventure Cycling Association
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#2
BioGeoMan

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Hey Casey,

Nice map, I really like your palette and font choice. A few things I noticed:
  • I think you should move the "190" hwy shield out from behind the Kailua-Kona label.
  • Are you planning on labeling any water features or major topographic features?
  • Maybe you could increase the font size in the legend, since it would be a bit hard to read while driving (and you have plenty of space).
  • The highway mileage markers: could you measure mileage point to point, instead of mileage on individual highways? It is difficult to tell where the mileage measurements start and reset especially where different highways intersect.
  • Is the map title on another panel in the series?
  • I really like how you integrated the north arrow, index, and inset map...nice work!

Hope this helps.

Michael Scisco

BioGeoCreations
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biogeocreations.com


#3
BioGeoMan

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:rolleyes:

Michael Scisco

BioGeoCreations
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biogeocreations.com


#4
Casey Greene

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Hey Michael, thanks for replying so quick.

-the "mini-atlas" does have a cover with a title and is coil-bound.

-I feel you pain with the hwy sign 190. Everyone i have shown the map to, hates it. I just do not have anywhere else to put the thing where it does not look cluttered, and it needs to be on the map. Lesser of two evils i guess. (any ideas?)

-I am not going to label anything else that is not already labeled. The reason for this is to not distract away from the main point of the map, even in the least. The users will have other recreational maps and guides to talk about all the other stuff that this map does not.

-well i can tell that i need to change the representation of mile markers. Thanks for making me realize this. They are suppose to tell you the label of the actual mile marker signs that are on the side of the road. Mile markers are a big thing in hawaii because roads are ether labeled poor, or there is no physical object that stands out to describe how to get somewhere. So, people give directions like "turn right on the first drive after mile marker 127." I think i did bad by making the mile marker type look exactly the same as the type on the scale bar. It makes it look as though i am, like you said Michael, trying to convene distance, and not a label. (any ideas ??)

-Good eye with regards to the type in the legend, now that i look at it, it does seem too small...gotta change that.

Thanks for the critique, I really apreciate it :D
Casey Greene - Cartographer - Adventure Cycling Association
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#5
BioGeoMan

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Hey Casey.

  • The 190 hwy: Does it really turn into a secondary road when it bypasses Kailua-Kona? What highway leads from Kailua-Kona to the 190 intersection...Hwy 11? I would try to fit it in below the Kailua-Kona label next to the hwy 11 shield...or get rid of it altogether.
  • The mile markers: Thanks for the info about how locals describe where things are in relation to mile markers...good stuff! Maybe you could actually produce a graphic that looks like the mile markers in Hawaii. If they are anything like the lower 50, it should be a fairly simple operation. That way, people who use your map would intuitively assume that the mile markers represent actual mile markers on the road.
  • Feature labeling: I still think you should at least label the oceans and maybe a few major bays along with a few major mountain summits or ranges (but that is only my opinion).

Hope this helps.

Michael Scisco

BioGeoCreations
Albuquerque, NM

505-603-3636
biogeocreations.com


#6
natcase

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I'd drop the drop shadow on type, just leave it on boxes or shields.

Also, I'd like to see the road shield type be larger than the mileage type, and both of them be darker. Is this going to be printed offset? If so, you may find those tinted type pieces becoming hard to read.

Ditto what BioGen says on adding physical feature labels.

My 2ยข...

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#7
Rob

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A number of places with the amenity classes you are showing have been left off your map. Is this on purpose?

I also think you should revisit your population data/classification method. Waimea and Kailua are way different.

good luck.

#8
Casey Greene

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I am new to CartoTalk, and i must say i am impressed with the quality critiques thrown my way. Thank You All - ! :D

Rob,
-The amenity representation has been shown this way on purpose (but i might have missed something, please let me know!). For instance Hawi and Kapaau were shown only has Hawi, since they are so close together and, from my experience at least, Hawi is the more prominent town.
-Kailua is an interesting town to represent in the way that I have since urban sprawl has made the definition of the town extend from the new airport, to basically Capt Cook and Kealekekua (although i have included both of these towns and the Keahou Shopping Center on page 3). So, it was a design challenge to represent, and in the end I represented Kailua as everything south of the new airport to the bottom of the page (includung Holualoa).
-As far as the "Pop-Top Camping" is concerned, I represented the public facilites that allow recreational vehicle camping. The reason the state rec areas were omitted, is that they simply do no allow rec vehicle camping of any sort...I pleeded with 3 different people on the phone at the office in Hilo to allow VW Westies, but they would not budge :( . I think the decision for this is the same reason why the county parks decided to charge a camping fee: homeless living on-site in their vehicles. Other potential camping spots, like Makalawena, were omitted because of the need for 4-wheel-drive (although Mak-Bob says he's seen at least 1 VW van make it down there).

-Let me know if you think anything else should be in there, or represented in a different way. :)

Nat,
-your right the entire map looks better without drops on the camping type, and the road signs should be bigger huh. ill get on it

Mark,
-I'm going to toy with "190" and the mile markers and post it back up, to see what you think.

thank you all again

ps...i am going to try to get all of the pages of the atlas up here tonight or tomorrow.
Casey Greene - Cartographer - Adventure Cycling Association
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#9
Casey Greene

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hey rob,

Q: Do you know what Waimea and Missoula, MT (were i live) have in common?

A: Californication :lol:

Anyways, i forgot to mention this: Waimea and Kailua were not labeled due their pop stats. They, along with Hilo, are the only population centers that have all 6 amenity classes possible (the black background symbols ones that is). Thus, they are represented larger to signal that message. It was just coincidence that these 3 towns are the largest in population.
Casey Greene - Cartographer - Adventure Cycling Association
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#10
razornole

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Hey Casey,

I have a few concerns.

Why use such a large scale and leave all your urban areas and parks as point data? Surely at this scale there is some spatial extent.
The icons could be perceived as confusing, I could envision somebody wondering why they could do laundry at Waimea but there isn't a bathroom. Maybe somewhere in your legend you could identify what white icons represent and what black icons represent.
To me the roads are lost in your basemap, I wouldn't go crazy with the saturation, but I would try lighter or darker hues to see how that would work (this is a driving map).
There is a huge negative/viod space in the bottom right, can't you work you legend down there somewhere. Have you thought about an overlap that will be visible on the other maps as well?
My monitors are calibrated, but to me there appears to be a heavy magenta cast to your water body, which isn't labeled. Could just be my monitors.
My final thought would be why terrain data if this is a simplified map. If you use elevation data you should have a legend explaining it. Someone could confuse that peak as a water body.

Sorry to come across harsh, just giving you my 2-cents.
kru
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#11
Rob

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Casey,

As the author you should be concerned that you are very selectively showing only some public restrooms, outside showers, and markets (among other amenities) while missing many others that would prove to be invaluable for van campers to know about, and with your map, would cause them to drive many miles out of their way to get such services that would otherwise be much closer. There are too many to list; I suggest you ask for some field time; it would be a blast, as you probably know, given your knowledge of the geography. A couple off the top of my head are: why aren't you showing the resources of Kawaihae, Hapuna, Puako, Waipio, or the Kings Shops off the highway in the Waikoloa Resort area where gas is much easier to get (side of the highway) than a five mile drive off the highway and up the hill to Waikoloa Town, etc...

You have also omitted many major landmarks (towns, resorts, state parks, popular beaches) that would help van campers understand where they are in relation to the highlighted areas, and might provide them areas of interest (and also the amenities your map is supposed to show).

While of course the best recourse is local knowledge for a map of this nature, much of this information can also be gathered through rigourous compilation, although perhaps never completely. I'd encourage you to undertake the task, budget and time permitting of course.... Hey, tell the boss to loan you one of them vans and hit the road for a week, you'd make him a great map...

Best of luck,

rob

#12
Matthew Hampton

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Casey,

As a native Missoulian and '93 EV Weekender owner I greatly appreciate your efforts. I hope to make it to the big island sometime and use your maps.

Others have made great comments that I won't repeat (other than the odd musky water color). My favorite part of the map it the Pop-top icon. It seems that the Natural Food Store icon is missing something...

co-cartographic creator of boringmaps.com


#13
Mike H

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hi casey,

I like the graphic style you've used on the symbols - reversing the state park icons vs town icons is a nice touch. The locator map/north arrow is sweet.

We were on the island this summer for 10 days, first-time visit, and we rented a jeep and brought our backpacking/camping stuff, so I have some experience with the area from a first-time car rental perspective. I'm not sure why you want to delve into the gas pump icons - obviously there are gas stations in every town and many along the way... there is no way you can show them them all, and since gas is available at every town, why bother? Your target audience is very specific - Westy drivers are usually savvy enuf travelers to find fuel, and they have a natural homing instinct for grocery stores. Maybe a simple text comment explaining gas is generally sparse on the rural stretches between towns? same with restroom icons - most folks assume a County Park you can camp in will have restrooms. It would almost be better to show a No Restroom icon if such a situation arose, like the No Drinking Water - that is good to know in advance.

I like the more esoteric data you include - for instance, the whole County Permit Office thing is very confusing to figure out when you are there, and want a permit... we never did get a permit because it was too difficult, and the jeep crawled its way into some great spots, but we didn't end up camping there. Assuming the westy may need a propane refill, those icons are helpful. Showers (in/out) and drinking water - all specific to the westy style vehicle-dependent traveler, and info not apparent in other resources. That is the strength of this map.

Remember the "westy" visitor will probably buy a few guidebooks to provide the comprehensive local info they need. They are a very different (self-sufficient) demographic than the mainstream Hertz-client. This map is just an overview to plan a few days ahead, and perhaps available on-line by the rental outfit to help them plan in advance. We bought just about every map we could find and weren't overly impressed with any of them. The DeLorme gazetteer and a guide book worked great.

There are more public access sites than the County Parks - but I assume you're only showing places they can park and sleep?

And yes, your westy icon rocks!
Michael Hermann
mike [at] purplelizard.com


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#14
Casey Greene

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Wow more good comments, thanks guys :D

I guess i need to clean up the map a bit more. I think i'm going to label what the icons mean (white vs black ones) because the "camping" icons meaning is getting lost. They are meant to label only legal-recreational-vehicle-camping spots and their amenities ("oh look hunny, this one has and inside shower and water, lets go there!"). This is why i have not included waipio or hapuna (they are not legal), and it is also why i have so few bathrooms labeled (because i am not trying to label all the bathrooms on the island, just the ones at the legal camp spots). Is this really that unclear? please lets me know...it dosn't seem so to me, but i know how it gets (im sure you so too) when your designing something, and it can make sense to the you, but to absolutely no one else. ;) Any advise? put labels on the legend?

As far omitting labels go (physical features, beaches, etc.), i know i'm walking on thin cartographic ice here (and i'm hoping i don't get slammed to hard), but i'm sort-of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Alright, maybe not quite that, but i am stuck between the cartographer-in-me saying "put as much information on the map as you can, to make the map more useful," and the designer-in-me saying "put only as much information as you need to communicate the message, thus making it more useful." With this project i decided to go with that second line of reasoning and: 1) make the reader want to look at the map (visually appealing), 2) only put the data needed to locate the amenities (this being the amenities themselves, roads and mile-markers), 3) make the amenities "pop," and 4) let the space created, by not having a ton of labels, guide the eye to what is important, the amenities. This map is not trying to be the all-supreme-topographical-road map of hawaiian recreation. It's just trying to show specific amenities available to VW westy tourists and how to get to them.

Micheal, about the gas station thing, I knew going into this that gas would be the hardest thing to get accurate, and as Rob has let me know I have missed at least one (which i have confirmed), but you would not believe how many gas stations in the hard-copy-2007-big-island-phone book (which the owner has in each westy), don't serve gas. :lol: Its funny for me, when researching, to call a "gas station" and ask them "do you serve gas," and they say "no, we stopped that like a year ago." So it may be futile, and I might end up taking the gas off, but i sort-of felt responsible for letting the user know this, but your right, maybe a paragraph on the back cover explaining this might be better...Good Idea.

Matthew and kru, consider the water color changed. Thanks guys.

I appreciate you guys mentioning the westy icon, its probably the thing i'm most proud of with the map...and if anybody wants to use it, let me know and ill get it to you.

Thanks again for all the comments. They really have made me critically think about the map and my process, which is extremely helpful,



ps...Rob, i wish i could come there to make the map, but this is just a school project and i don't think the owner of the company has the funds to get me there (especially since i told him he was getting a free map)...but i wish he did :D
Casey Greene - Cartographer - Adventure Cycling Association
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#15
Dennis McClendon

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Are the mile markers also important to navigating around Maui? Where can I find their locations? We're doing some tourist maps for Maui.
Dennis McClendon, Chicago CartoGraphics
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