44 replies to this topic

[Dennis McClendon]

Jean-Louis, that looks like a diagrammatic representation of the Montréal passageway network (La ville souterraine, it used to be called, I think).

I had planned to do a presentation this year at NACIS on highly stylized maps, but didn't for various reasons. So I'm looking for notable examples to discuss next year in Missoula. Transit "journey planners" are certainly the most well-known examples, but I'm intrigued by the severe abstraction of maps like this:

[Jean-Louis]

...that looks like a diagrammatic representation of the Montréal passageway network (La ville souterraine, it used to be called, I think).

... I'm intrigued by the severe abstraction of maps like this:

It is still called that Dennis. I have been approached several times with the idea of a producing multi-level pictorial representation of this unique urban feature that is called the underground city. I have never been able to quite wrap my mind around it. ( I even toyed with the idea of a worms-eye view, looking up the skirts (so to speak) of people navigating the network). It's real complicated. Recently someone produced this very abstract map. Though I generally dont like abstract maps, I thought this one worked very well, at least for going station to station. No one as yet has figured out how to convey a sense of its depth.
Are you looking for a copy?

As for the picture you pasted, I love your term 'severe abstraction' ...as in 'severely' demented!. If you are willing to put up with the pain of turning it as you read, it does kinda work. I wonder how far one can push the envelope? We should hold a contest on Carto talk. How strange and abstract can you make a design and yet still conserve a basic direction-providing functionality ?

Maybe this thread will go from 'Bad map's to 'Weird maps'

[ravells]

I am new to this site and have no professional experience with Cartography (I'm strictly in amateur in every sense).

I am sorry if this is a bit off topic from the orignal post, but this is the most fascinating thread I have read anywhere in a very long time. I had no idea of the divisions (real and imagined) in the Cartographic community between 'proper cartographers' and graphic designers. The copy of the speech that was posted earlier was fantastic reading too.

This is just a very big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, I have really learned a lot in reading it.

Jean-Louis, your three quarter view map illustrations are truly stunning! In my layman's mind, I would describe you as a cartographer without a doubt and your final product as maps. After all, if we describe 15th Century maps which use perspective views as maps, why not yours?

My only disappointment is that Captain Haddock hasn't yet called anyone a 'Bashi-Bazouk', but you can't have everything!.

I hope this thread continues to run. It is utterly fascinating.

Ravs

[amproehl]

One of the things I am interested in is the way maps can be read as well as viewed. Years ago, when I was preparing a map to be silk screened, I noticed that the text-only layer was almost a complete map onto itself thanks to the spatial arrangements of the text. Its an approach I've been trying to explore in some of the maps I've been designing (the attached Silk Road map is one such experiment).

suppose you had a bunch of labels and no other features, but the labels were arranged in their proper spatial relationships and users could see if they go right they'll come to the thing represented by one label and if they go left they'll come to the thing represented by that label. Where would that fall on the scale of mapness?

Arent there a lot of maps like that such as the one below?.

Attached Files

•  Silk_Road.jpg   137.2K   151 downloads

[DaveB]

I think that Silk Road map (and especially your Point Reyes type-only map) are getting closer to what I was thinking about below. The type placement, size, color and and font, etc. all go together, along with place names that include words like sea and mountains, to let readers mentally fill in the geography.
The diagram-like underground/metro/subway maps and the spiral map Dennis posted are other examples of maps that I think are high enough on the "mapness" scale to be called maps.

[Loey Knapp]

I teach Cartographic Design at the University of Montana and need some examples of really bad maps which we can critique in class. If you have one that obviously doesn't meet design standards please send it over - loey.knapp@umontana.edu.
Thanks

[ELeFevre]

For the sake of curiosity... are you going to show your students -or have them find and present- an equal number of well designed maps?

[Rob]

I teach Cartographic Design at the University of Montana and need some examples of really bad maps which we can critique in class. If you have one that obviously doesn't meet design standards please send it over - loey.knapp@umontana.edu.
Thanks

I'd try looking around for some older posts; I know people use to post them for a daily chuckle.

[François Goulet]

For the sake of curiosity... are you going to show your students -or have them find and present- an equal number of well designed maps?

I think it's important to show them even more excellent maps so at the end of their courses, they will have in mind models of what to do and not only bad example... but I'm sure you know that... or else, it's just my opinion

[ELeFevre]

For the sake of curiosity... are you going to show your students -or have them find and present- an equal number of well designed maps?

I think it's important to show them even more excellent maps so at the end of their courses, they will have in mind models of what to do and not only bad example... but I'm sure you know that... or else, it's just my opinion

I 100% agree! It's much more challenging in IMO to be able to recognize and discuss why a design works rather than why an obviously horrible map is horrible.

[MapMedia]

Just as in a writing class, you would critique a piece of bad writing and good writing, because its the practice of articulating in words HOW a piece is wrong or correct.
Both are excellent exercises.

[Loey Knapp]

Yes, I plan to have the students critique both good and bad maps. I have a pretty good collection of good maps from the National Geographic office but need examples of things that don't work. I'll keep looking.

[frax]

Looey, you are probably on the case, but I think it would be very useful for your students to learn to distinguish not only between bad/good looking maps but also at examples of really good looking maps that fail in their communication, and vice versa - bad/plain looking maps that are really powerful and good in their communication.

[Casey Greene]

Hey Loey,
Long time no see

One place i've noticed quite a lot of questionable maps is the Missoulian. Now, I have seen good maps in there, but most of the time....

Or you can just use my bad maps from last fall semester

[p-dub]

In the spirit of bad maps and 'cartastrophes' I offer this link to MOBA (museum of bad art)

http://www.museumofb....org/index.html

Sorry, there are no maps in the collection, but I thought some of you might enjoy anyway.