23 replies to this topic

[Deborah]

I being trying to find out who owns the licencing rights for Peters Map. I've googled a few times but have come up empty.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Deborah

[Hans van der Maarel]

I being trying to find out who owns the licencing rights for Peters Map. I've googled a few times but have come up empty.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

Do you mean the map in Peters projection that was produced for and issued by the UN back in the late 80s/early 90s? (the one who claimed to be 'fair and honest, unlike Mercator') I would assume the licensing rights of that one are with the UN.

If you mean the projection itself, I don't think that's subject to restrictions. And if it is, simply say you're using the "Gall Cylindric" projection

[Deborah]

I being trying to find out who owns the licencing rights for Peters Map. I've googled a few times but have come up empty.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

Do you mean the map in Peters projection that was produced for and issued by the UN back in the late 80s/early 90s? (the one who claimed to be 'fair and honest, unlike Mercator') I would assume the licensing rights of that one are with the UN.

If you mean the projection itself, I don't think that's subject to restrictions. And if it is, simply say you're using the "Gall Cylindric" projection

Hi

Thanks, yes I believe we are talking about the same thing (http://www.petersmap.com to be sure). I'm looking for a digital version that I can use on a website.

Is it subject to licensing/copyright restrictions if I for instance scan a version and use that???

TIA
Deborah

[frax]

Hans,

I have to correct you there, since your reference to history is not correct. The Gall-Peters projection has never been recognised by the UN (the UN doesn't have one official map or projection, and does not endorse or reflect on map projections).

When Arno Peters presented this, it was picked up by church/ecumenic organisations, and that is where you can find it used still, and they bought his argumentation - and they urged the UN to adopt it.

For the record - the projection that Peters "invented" was described already in the 19th century by James Gall, and it does present the world in an equal-area projection, but it is not the first and not the best for it (too much distortion). I think it made such a splash, primarily because it has so much distortion, and it looks quite different that way.

Deborah - the projection is old, and not restricted in any way. You mention it as a "Peters map", do you refer to the original map (if there was such a one) that Arno Peters presented in 1973 - or do you mean any map in the Gall-Peters projection?

You would have to follow the same copyright/republishing restrictions as for any graphic, map or artwork. If you just want any digital image file with this projection - you should look at Wikipedia, since they are strict about their licensing and documentation, you might be able to reuse that map!

As you might have guessed - I am not too hot on this projection - if you are interested in alternatives, I am sure the acumulated cartographic expertise here at CartoTalk can come up with an alternative for you! Frankly, I am in a way quite passionate about arguing against the use of this map, especially from any "more true" or "more equal" or "more just" argument.

[Christine Bosacki]

Oxford Cartographers is the UK agent for the Peter's Projection and also here in the U.S. from what I recall. Back in the mid 90's, we inquired about the use of the Peter's Projection, but eventually abandoned the notion when it seemed like we'd have a lot of hurdles to jump especially since U.S. and U.K. copyright laws are different. Dr. Peters insists on his own map being used as published and it can only be supplied by his agents. The projection can however be used under licence but there is a publishing fee and the copyright remains with Peters.

[Sky Schemer]

I admit this is petty, but I am always amused by peoples' mini-essays touting the greatness of their own products that obviously weren't spell-checked. It's even more amusing when the mis-spelled word is "accurate", and even more so when the error is on the home page.

The Peters Projection is an area acurate map.

[Hans van der Maarel]

I have to correct you there, since your reference to history is not correct. The Gall-Peters projection has never been recognised by the UN (the UN doesn't have one official map or projection, and does not endorse or reflect on map projections).

When Arno Peters presented this, it was picked up by church/ecumenic organisations, and that is where you can find it used still, and they bought his argumentation - and they urged the UN to adopt it.

I have a copy of the original around here somewhere (eh... in the pile of unsorted maps in the attic), but I do remember there being a big UNICEF logo on it (and I read the relevant chapter in Mark Monmonier's "Drawing The Line"). That's why I thought it was produced for UNICEF and hence assumed the copyrights were with them.

[frax]

Christine,

There is absolutely no licensing or patents involved to use the Gall-Peters projection, in all jurisdictions.

Hans - thanks for bringing this up - there might very well be maps prepared for and by UN institutions using this projection!
(I have to confess that I have only done limited research on this, but I can tell you that there is no official endorsement now. Keep in mind that some UN related organisations, e.g. UNICEF, have national comittees that are set up as independent foundations - so if a British UNICEF map was published, it might have been done totally indepenent of UNICEF hq)

[Deborah]

Christine,

There is absolutely no licensing or patents involved to use the Gall-Peters projection, in all jurisdictions.

Hans - thanks for bringing this up - there might very well be maps prepared for and by UN institutions using this projection!
(I have to confess that I have only done limited research on this, but I can tell you that there is no official endorsement now. Keep in mind that some UN related organisations, e.g. UNICEF, have national comittees that are set up as independent foundations - so if a British UNICEF map was published, it might have been done totally indepenent of UNICEF hq)

So if I'm correct in understanding there are two different 'projections' (I'm assuming this being a cartographic word refering to a view), the Peters (as in Arno) and the Gall-Peters. The Arno Peters Projection requires licensing and the Gall-Peters doesn't and so i could create my own version or just buy a digital copy.

Hope I got it right!

TIA to all.
Deborah

[Hans van der Maarel]

Hans - thanks for bringing this up - there might very well be maps prepared for and by UN institutions using this projection!
(I have to confess that I have only done limited research on this, but I can tell you that there is no official endorsement now. Keep in mind that some UN related organisations, e.g. UNICEF, have national comittees that are set up as independent foundations - so if a British UNICEF map was published, it might have been done totally indepenent of UNICEF hq)

I can try to dig it out of the aforementioned pile if you like, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to do that (I'll be leaving for the US on Friday morning and will be doing a training course all day tomorrow). I don't remember many details, but I'm sure it featured either the UNICEF or the UN logo very prominently on the front cover and the map itself, thereby giving the impression it was endorsed.

[Dennis McClendon]

So if I'm correct in understanding there are two different 'projections' (I'm assuming this being a cartographic word refering to a view), the Peters (as in Arno) and the Gall-Peters.

Perhaps I can clarify:

A map projection is the way a mapmaker chooses to represent the spherical surface of the earth on a sheet of flat paper. Hundreds, if not thousands, of ways have been tried through the centuries. You may be familiar with Mercator projections, which make Greenland look as big as South America, or projections in which the earth's surface looks like an orange peel, or the rectangle with curved ends (Robinson projection) currently used by National Geographic and other publishers.

Gall's projection, which gives continents the proper relationship in area but not in shape, was developed in the 19th century. Around 1973, Arno Peters "discovered" it and made a big noise about it being the proper way to show world maps to avoid the distortions of Mercator projections. Serious cartographers were bemused by this, as there are many ways to avoid the shortcomings of a Mercator projection.

Projection methods are mathematical formulae, which cannot be protected by copyright. Thus, any mapping software that projects or reprojects data can project it into a Gall or "Peters" projection, without need to license any rights from Peters or anyone else.

Once a modern author has created a particular image, whether it is a map or any other pictorial work, that image can be subject to copyright. The copyright, however, covers only the expression of facts, not the facts themselves nor the formula used to project those facts into one position or another on the map. Another mapmaker may freely trace the first cartographer's map in order to draw coastlines, locate cities, or identify countries. Copyright may, however, restrict him from reproducing the first cartographer's actual map.

So any specific map made using the Gall or "Peters" projection may be subject to copyright, but the method used to make such a map is completely in the public domain. Does that clarify things for you?

[ELeFevre]

So if I'm correct in understanding there are two different 'projections' (I'm assuming this being a cartographic word refering to a view), the Peters (as in Arno) and the Gall-Peters.

Projection methods are mathematical formulae, which cannot be protected by copyright. Thus, any mapping software that projects or reprojects data can project it into a Gall or "Peters" projection, without need to license any rights from Peters or anyone else.

Once a modern author has created a particular image, whether it is a map or any other pictorial work, that image can be subject to copyright. The copyright, however, covers only the expression of facts, not the facts themselves nor the formula used to project those facts into one position or another on the map. Another mapmaker may freely trace the first cartographer's map in order to draw coastlines, locate cities, or identify countries. Copyright may, however, restrict him from reproducing the first cartographer's actual map.

So any specific map made using the Gall or "Peters" projection may be subject to copyright, but the method used to make such a map is completely in the public domain. Does that clarify things for you?

Dennis,
Since we are now on the topic of copyright: (maybe we should split this topic?)
Hypothetically let's say I want to create map showing all of the dog boarding houses across the state of Coloroado. I go out with my GPS, collect the locations, and then attribute those points based on my own research. I then create a series of "kennel" maps that I copyright and sell publicly. As soon as the maps are released, a competitor buys the map, scans the map, digitizes my points and then adds his/her own attributes and starts selling their own version of the map that looks nothing like my map. Have they broken any copyright laws?

[Christine Bosacki]

The law is in fact broken when some scans or photocopies a copyrighted piece without the permission of the author.

If Joe Competitor sets out to create kennel maps of their own and referenced your map and perhaps others (not copied, mind you), locating the kennels in the exact spot you did, adding some other information or design, it is typically not an infringement since only your design and and arrangement of facts can be copyrighted, not the facts themselves.

[Deborah]

So if I'm correct in understanding there are two different 'projections' (I'm assuming this being a cartographic word refering to a view), the Peters (as in Arno) and the Gall-Peters.

Does that clarify things for you?

Mostly yes. So I can basically find a map with a similiar view acquire without infringing any copyright and use that!

Thanks for the micro lesson in cartography

TIA to all
Deborah

[frax]

Deborah,

Yes that is true, but you have to (of course) examine the copyright/restrictions of any other map that has been created in the Gall-Peters projection, and honor that. If you have a budget, you can contract a cartographer to prepare a map for you, to your specifications, that you can use without restrictions (of course depending on the agreement with you and the cartographer). This projection is supported in most GIS software (map-making/analysis software), so it is easy to prepare these maps.

I took a peek at the ODT website, and I found this page: "free" black & white Gall-Peters projection maps. They are free, but as you can see there are quite some restrictions on how you can use these, and the links are broken. Here is the high-res map from that page. And like I said before, wikipedia is a good resource for material with little restrictions, this map, prepared by NASA/JPL is in the public domain.

Just out of curiousity - for what purpose are you looking for this map?