22 replies to this topic

[Hans van der Maarel]

Personally, and I may be arrogant or just stubborn, I would be obliged to offer a better map product (compare their maps aside mine) and let them decide which level of cartography they want in their publications, etc. Even do a focus group - which might be all you need to get in the door.

Keep in mind the cultural differences... Even between Europe and North America there's a big difference in the kind of maps the general audience prefers. If I were to go to one of my clients over here and suggest them a street map in the same style as for example Rand McNally or the AAA use, they would think I'm out of my mind. This has nothing to do with cartographic quality, it's just the difference in the kind of maps that are used in different parts of the world. In the end, the map buyer will go with what they're comfortable and familiar with.

By all means go ahead and try to offer a better map product, but be aware that it might be difficult.

[MapMedia]

The point is to market a different service, not any specific map design. Of course, knowing how to conform to US vs Euro vs Japanese street map styles is important too.

[benbakelaar]

Academically, I think what some of you (especially Datonn) are talking about is the difference between an industrial economy and a knowledge economy. North America has knowledge workers... other outsourcing countries may have capable and knowledgeable workers, but the economy hasn't morphed into a support platform for knowledge workers yet.

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....nowledge_worker

The third wave of human socio-economic development is described by Charles Savage in "Fifth Generation Management." The first wave was the Agricultural Age with wealth defined as ownership of land. In the second wave, the Industrial Age, wealth was based on ownership of Capital, i.e. factories. In the Knowledge Age, wealth is based upon the ownership of knowledge and the ability to use that knowledge to create or improve goods and services. Product improvements include cost, durability, suitability, timeliness of delivery, and security.

[Derek Tonn]

If one really wants to penetrate any foreign market (and that includes markets within the western carto-community), one needs to go in asking what they need (and it may not be the graphic expertise that our eye tells us is lacking), learning deeply about not just map traditions but more broadly about pictorial traditions and geographic traditions. Sense of place and space and so on. To the extent that we want to sell tools, we need to be sure our tools run on local current and fit local metrics.

EXCELLENT point, Nat!

We've been quietly looking at Europe and SE/NE Asia for years....and have spent time "on the ground" in Italy, England, Japan, South Korea and a few other places....soaking in not just the maps that are available to folks, but also the CULTURE in which those maps exist (not to mention countless hours "surfing the web" and looking at hundreds of examples of existing map artwork). My wife even taught English as a second language in Tokyo for a year or two....so we are (hopefully) not going in with too much "American arrogance" or blindness when it comes to other regions of the world having both spent about 3-4% of our lives outside the "continental 48".

What I think is the case when I look at lots of "bad maps" in countries such as India is *not* cultural or societal differences when it comes to actual design techniques and presentation of information. Rather, the focus is on "function" over "fashion", given the developing economies. If people would have looked at lots of the resources during the Industrial Revolution in Europe and North America, you would have seen very few images such as maps for the masses which focused on "beauty" over utilitarian purposes. Some map graphics from that period include the most beautiful maps I have yet set my eyes on! However, the common uses of map images for the average map user would have not worried nearly as much about the aesthetic as getting them to where they were going as quickly as possible.

That is what I think we all are facing in developing countries: Maps that just need to get people from Point A to Point B, rather than look "pretty".

I don't know....maybe the ART of mapping is way too important to me in relation to the BUSINESS of mapping! I didn't get into this field to get rich though, as there are 1,000,000 easier ways to make money than starting your own mapping business. I just want people to look at the work we do and find it both functional AND pleasing to the eye....hopefully something that will outlive me if I/we are lucky. Bad maps certainly aren't limited to developing nations either! If I had a dime for every lousy map I've seen here in the States, developed by American designers, I'd be Bill Gates by now. If all of us CartoTalkers can just do our best to rid the world of bad maps, one map at a time, that's all we can do.......

[Rick Dey]

If all of us CartoTalkers can just do our best to rid the world of bad maps, one map at a time, that's all we can do.......

There you go, a new mission statement for CartoTalk

"Ridding the world of bad maps, one map at a time."

[natcase]

Life's short...

If all of us CartoTalkers can just do our best to rid the world of bad maps, one map at a time, that's all we can do.......

There you go, a new mission statement for CartoTalk

"Ridding the world of bad maps, one map at a time."

Hah! It's aready our company motto (more or less):
"Life's Too Short For Bad Maps"

But we'd be happy to see it echoed on CartoTalk

[samin]

That link is not opening

[ELeFevre]

That link is not opening

All of the links work for me. Can you be more specific?